Boeing Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (MSA)

[Triton]

Artist's impression of Boeing Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (MSA).

Boeing's maritime surveillance aircraft packs the mission systems of a P-8A Poseidon into a Bombardier Challenger 605 airframe. The system has been developed with Field Aviation

Source:
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20131118/DEFREG04/311180027/Boeing-Unveils-New-Maritime-Surveillance-Aircraft

 

[CJGibson]

I'll take twenty four!

P.Hammond, Whitehall, London

 

[Kartek]

I don't see any Harpoons

 

[Jemiba]

I don't see any Harpoons

Nope ! ".. said the aircraft in its current configuration would not be armed, but there is nothing to prevent that
from happening if a customer required it."

And targets, you'll need a Harpoon for, probably are quite scarce in the MSA world today, I think. For dealing
with small pirate/smuggler or terrorist craft, something like a Hellfire probably is better suited.

 

[Stargazer]

So, can we consider that the "Seeker" tests that took place in Nevada some years ago, flying the Gulfstream test-bed with underwing pylons has something to do with developing the MSA?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11255.msg106540.html#msg106540

 

[cluttonfred]

I would curious to see the numbers on speed, range and time on station for the Challenger 605-based MRA and the P-8A Poseidon. If you can actually do the mission with a Challenger 605 then why would you ever want a Boeing 737? The savings in fuel alone would be massive.

 

[Dragon029]

If you're capable of flying a large fleet, that should be fine, but if you're a nation like Australia, where you're flying long missions regardless, it's easier to have an aircraft that supports having shiftwork and permitting superior tactical response. Plus, if you can't afford a big fleet with multiple aircraft types, you might as well have that aircraft capable of performing maritime warfare as well.

 

[TomS]

I would curious to see the numbers on speed, range and time on station for the Challenger 605-based MRA and the P-8A Poseidon. If you can actually do the mission with a Challenger 605 then why would you ever want a Boeing 737? The savings in fuel alone would be massive.

Note that using the same "mission systems" does not mean all the same sensors -- the Challenger MSA is using a Seaspray radar, not the APY-10 from the P-8A, for example. And there's no mention of ASW sensors (i.e., sonobouys) at all. This design seems to be intended only for surface surveillance.

And there's of course the difference in armament -- P-8A has an internal bay and external hardpoints for torpedoes and missiles, while the Challenger MSA has no armamaent at all in its base model and would have only limited extrernal carriage even if modified.

So yes, for the more limited surface surveillance only mission, there's probably no reason to buy the bigger airframe. But if you want to do ASW and employ weapons, the bigger airframe looks more attractive.

 

[Triton]

I would curious to see the numbers on speed, range and time on station for the Challenger 605-based MRA and the P-8A Poseidon. If you can actually do the mission with a Challenger 605 then why would you ever want a Boeing 737? The savings in fuel alone would be massive.

Note that using the same "mission systems" does not mean all the same sensors -- the Challenger MSA is using a Seaspray radar, not the APY-10 from the P-8A, for example. And there's no mention of ASW sensors (i.e., sonobouys) at all. This design seems to be intended only for surface surveillance.

And there's of course the difference in armament -- P-8A has an internal bay and external hardpoints for torpedoes and missiles, while the Challenger MSA has no armamaent at all in its base model and would have only limited extrernal carriage even if modified.

So yes, for the more limited surface surveillance only mission, there's probably no reason to buy the bigger airframe. But if you want to do ASW and employ weapons, the bigger airframe looks more attractive.

I was concerned that quoting the photo caption might cause some misunderstandings concerning the capability of the Boeing MSA compared to the Boeing P-8A Poseidon. In the end, I reasoned that it was not necessary to paste the entire article, or rewrite it here, because I presumed that if members were interested they would follow the link to read it.

 

[TomS]

In the end, I reasoned that it was not necessary to paste the entire article, or rewrite it here, because I presumed that if members were interested they would follow the link to read it.

Sadly, in my experience, people seldom follow links.

 

[TomS]

So, can we consider that the "Seeker" tests that took place in Nevada some years ago, flying the Gulfstream test-bed with underwing pylons has something to do with developing the MSA?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11255.msg106540.html#msg106540

I'd be relucant to draw any connection.

1) The aircraft in your link is a Gulfstream, while Challenger is a Bombardier product.

2) N105TB is operated by Air Force Materiel Command, which would have no reason to support a contractor initiative.

3) N105TB also has a known mission not related to maritime surveillence.

 

[Stargazer]

So, can we consider that the "Seeker" tests that took place in Nevada some years ago, flying the Gulfstream test-bed with underwing pylons has something to do with developing the MSA?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11255.msg106540.html#msg106540

I'd be relucant to draw any connection.

1) The aircraft in your link is a Gulfstream, while Challenger is a Bombardier product.

2) N105TB is operated by Air Force Materiel Command, which would have no reason to support a contractor initiative.

3) N105TB also has a known mission not related to maritime surveillence.

Thanks for your helpful remarks.

 

[seruriermarshal]

Boeing Maritime Surveillance Aircraft Demonstrator Completes 1st Flight

SEATTLE, March 5, 2014 -- Boeing’s [NYSE: BA] Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (MSA) demonstrator recently completed its first flight to verify airworthiness, an important milestone toward providing a low-risk and cost-effective maritime surveillance solution designed for search and rescue, anti-piracy patrols and coastal and border security.

Boeing teammate Field Aviation conducted the successful testing during a four-hour flight on Feb. 28 from Toronto’s Pearson International Airport. Field Aviation modified the Bombardier Challenger 604 aircraft’s structures and systems into the MSA configuration.

"We accomplished everything we set out to achieve," Field Aviation Pilot Craig Tylski said. "The aerodynamic performance was right on the money and even with the additional aerodynamic shapes, such as the radome, the demonstrator performed like a normal aircraft. The control and handling were excellent."

Additional airworthiness flights are scheduled for the next two months. Once they are complete, the aircraft will fly to a Boeing facility in Seattle where the MSA mission systems will be installed and tested.

MSA uses proven technologies developed for Boeing's P-8A Poseidon program to provide multi-mission surveillance capabilities. The baseline configuration features an Active Electronically Scanned Array multi-mode radar, an Electro/Optical/Infrared sensor, Electronic Support Measures, a Communications Intelligence sensor and Automated Identification System.

Boeing achieved first flight of the MSA demonstrator on an accelerated schedule due to rapid prototyping and lean manufacturing techniques by Boeing Phantom Works, the company’s advanced technology organization, working closely with industry teammates.

Boeing has selected the Challenger 605 business jet as the MSA platform and will leverage Field Aviation's engineering and modification experience with the Challenger family of aircraft to modify the jet.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/Boeing-Maritime-Surveillance-Aircraft-Demonstrator-Completes-1st-Flight