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Boeing Fighter Studies, 1970s to ATF

Stargazer2006

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Much more interesting is this very unusually shaped ATF design, the Model 908-833. Its particularity is to use the the on-board inert gas generation system or OBIGGS.

(OBIGGS) processes engine bleed air into a nitrogen rich gas suitable for fuel tank inerting. Since the inert gas is produced during aircraft operation, the logistics problems of resupply vanish. Furthermore, the OBIGGS has weight and maintenance advantages over the foam system. (...)

The objective of this study was to develop a prototype development plan for installing the best choice OBIGGS in an Advanced Tactical Fiqhter (ATF). The best choice OBIGGS was based on detailed studies of inert qas requirements for AIF missions and trade-off studies to arrive at the best systcm preliminary desiqn. Detailed specifications were defined for' the best choice OBIGGS and life cycle cost studies were conducted to compare this OBIGGS with other fuel tank fire protection techniques.

Interestingly the basic model number "908" goes back to the LightWeight Fighter (LWF) competitions of the early 1970s, so it's interesting that it was reused here for a mid-1980s project (I really hope that one day we can understand the Boeing logic in designating their projects...).


Source:
FIGHTER AIRCRAFT OBIGGS STUDY Volume I
BOEING MILITARY AIRPLANE COMPANY, June 1987
AIR FORCE WRIGHT AERONAUTICAL LABORATORIES AFWAL-TR-87-2024
 

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Stargazer2006

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Here is a little "oddity" as far as the designation is concerned. This mid-1990s ATF configuration, developed as part of the INNOVATIVE CONTROL EFFECTORS (ICE) program, is described simply as the Boeing Model-24F. It does appears later in the document as the Model 1798 but that designation only applies to a "0.05 Scale Model of Configuration -24F" (also called "Wind Tunnel Model 1798"). The better-known MRF-24X (falsely described as "F-24") is exactly the same design but without a tail (it is also attached here for reference).

The baseline aircraft chosen for this effort was the Boeing developed advanced tactical aircraft designated the Model-24F, which is a single engine, diamond wing configuration with a conventional empennage designed for both the air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. The wing design is similar to the F-22, with standard control surfaces including ailerons, flaperons, horizontal tail, and rudders. Thrust vectoring (TV) is available on the baseline vehicle, resulting in reduced empennage size to take advantage of this capability. The reduced vertical fin size results in directionally unstable aircraft at supersonic speeds, but stability is augmented by sideslip feedback to the rudders.

Note that a second baseline aircraft was defined to meet the USN carrier suitability requirements.

Source:
INNOVATIVE CONTROL EFFECTORS (ICE)
Boeing Defense and Space Group, March 1996
AIR FORCE MATERIEL COMMAND - WRIGHT LABORATORY WL-TR-96-3074
 

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Sundog

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Stargazer2006 said:
Here is a little "oddity" as far as the designation is concerned. This mid-1990s ATF configuration, developed as part of the INNOVATIVE CONTROL EFFECTORS (ICE) program, is described simply as the Boeing Model-24F. It does appears later in the document as the Model 1798 but that designation only applies to a "0.05 Scale Model of Configuration -24F" (also called "Wind Tunnel Model 1798"). The better-known MRF-24X (falsely described as "F-24") is exactly the same design but without a tail (it is also attached here for reference).

Source:
INNOVATIVE CONTROL EFFECTORS (ICE)
Boeing Defense and Space Group, March 1996
AIR FORCE MATERIEL COMMAND - WRIGHT LABORATORY WL-TR-96-3074

I believe the same info is already in the thread on the ICE program.
 

Triton

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Boeing fighter interceptor concept photo found on ebay.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Boeing-Airplanes-Press-Photo-/200769046271?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item2ebec486ff
 

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Sundog

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Wow, thanks Quellish! I've wanted that info for a long time. Especially with all of the great cross sections and details. :)
 

Sundog

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Regarding the Model 987, has anyone found the report covering phase I, which is the development of the layout? The paper Quellish posted is for phase III. The reason I ask is the paper states that the standard layout was the four advanced air to ground weapons you see on the bottom of the fuselage, a 25mm cannon and two SRAAMs. I've not seen any indication of where the cannon is located or where the SRAAMs would be carried. At this point I'm assuming the SRAAMs would be carried externally on wing pylons outboard of the main gear, but I've been unable to find any evidence, so I just thought I would ask.

I'm still searching, if I find anything I'll post it.
 

Sundog

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The vehicle shown in this image, based on the text, is the Grumman design, not Boeing's.
 

fightingirish

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Here a drawing of a Boeing Interceptor for the ATF program.
The picture caption mentions, that this project should weigh less than 22,700 kg and cost less than $40m (1985).


According to this topic, this drawing was posted in b/w before and its designation is Boeing 985-430 Supersonic Interceptor.


Attachment source: Interavia Germany, June 1985, page 605
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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hesham said:
flateric said:
Originally posted by Sundog in McDonnell Douglas pre-ATF / ATF studies thread re-identified as Boeing's various airframe inlet concepts from

AIAA 80-1106
Performance Variations in High Aspect Ratio Subsonic Diffusers Due to Geometric Constraints in Supersonic Tactical Aircraft Inlet Installations
Jan Syberg and Joseph Koncsek,
Boeing Military Airplane Co.,
Seattle, Washington
Lewis Surber
Air Force Wright Aeronautical Laboratories
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio


And from DTIC;

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a108300.pdf


And from



PERFORMANCE OF HIGHLY INTEGRATED INLETS FOR SUPERSONIC AIRCRAFT
by L.Surber, J. Sy berg and J.Koncsek in


AGARD CP-301 AERODYNAMICS OF POWER PLANT INSTALLATION
 

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hesham

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That's a clearer drawings,thank you my dear Paul.
 

PlanesPictures

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Those concepts are really master pieces. What a pitty no basic 3D drawings
 

Stargazer2006

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Boeing's pre-ATF designs from TsAGI's Tekhnicheskaya Informatsiya (No.13, 1984):
 

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flateric

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Boeing Mach 2.6 Long-Range Supercruise Fighter study from 1978
http://thehuwaldtfamily.org/jtrl/vehicle_data/Concepts/Long%20Range%20Mach%202.6%20Supercruiser%20Studies,%20NASA-TM-78811.pdf
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Boeing Model 606 Display Model

Greetings All -

On EPay... Mark

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-BOEING-Model-606-Desk-Shelf-Prototype-Military-Jet-Supersonic-W-issues/201587891474?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D36795%26meid%3Dfc6dbae3796d4509b0ec78e69e5e5352%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D222124584880
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Re: Boeing Model 606 Display Model

May the Force be with you! ;D Mark
 

hesham

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From; Designed for the Kill The Jet Fighter, Development - Experience
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/b022011.pdf

A detailed report into the Bud Nelson Light Experimental Supercruiser 985-213 design. Lots of drawings.
 

hesham

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/b022011.pdf

A detailed report into the Bud Nelson Light Experimental Supercruiser 985-213 design. Lots of drawings.

Forget to say,amazing find my dear Paul.
 

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hesham

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And;
 

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RAP

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Boeing Fighter Model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Wooden-Swing-Wing-Fighter-Jet-Model-1960s-Boeing-Prototype-AVS/332716937712?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44040%26meid%3Dd6c74814c8a940e3ae761c058de6865f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D123250221412%26itm%3D332716937712&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
 

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Stargazer2006

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

Obviously an iteration of the Model 818 TFX, but why a single-seater? I don't think I'd seen this before.
 

Sundog

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

Skyblazer said:
Obviously an iteration of the Model 818 TFX, but why a single-seater? I don't think I'd seen this before.

To me, it looks more like a design for the 1970's ATF super cruise strike fighter program.
 

sferrin

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

Hmmm. Maybe they used their TFX entry as a starting point?
 

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Michel Van

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

I think that's Boeing Model 818 for the TFX what became the F-111

Boeing proposed for 818 and 818Navy Different cockpits



 

Stargazer2006

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

sferrin said:
Hmmm. Maybe they used their TFX entry as a starting point?

I think Scott is right, Michel, as proved by the image he shared. It is indeed an ATS proposal, but strongly influenced by one of their earlier TFX designs. Thanks!
 

hesham

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

Skyblazer said:
Obviously an iteration of the Model 818 TFX, but why a single-seater? I don't think I'd seen this before.

Good question.
 

Stargazer2006

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

hesham said:
Skyblazer said:
Obviously an iteration of the Model 818 TFX, but why a single-seater? I don't think I'd seen this before.

Good question.

hesham, it's already been answered by sferrin...
 

Michel Van

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

One moment Skyblazer and hesham

i just realized something, How many pilots are in USAF TFX: One or Two ?
since this is one seater and most USAF TFX models show two pilots cockpits

and by the way, what was Boeing proposal for FX that became F-15?
 

Stargazer2006

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Re: Boeing Fighter Model

Michel Van said:
One moment Skyblazer and hesham

i just realized something, How many pilots are in USAF TFX: One or Two ?
since this is one seater and most USAF TFX models show two pilots cockpits

and by the way, what was Boeing proposal for FX that became F-15?

People on this forum do not read what's written today, it seems... ::)

I said that it LOOKED like TFX but was surprised to see a TFX with only one seat, as indeed the TFX was a two-seater.
To which sferrin rightly replied that the ATS (early ATF) proposal by Boeing was exactly like the model, even providing an original painting of that project.
End of story! Why continue to question when we have an image of the Boeing ATS that matches the model perfectly?! ???

As for your question, I do not know of any Boeing proposal for FX, so I couldn't give you the Model number. However I'm sure they must have worked on that proposal at some point, so most likely someone like Paul or Scott would know.
 

galgot

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Found these beauties in this PDF :
http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADB022011
And assembled it , there are other images in the pdf.
If already posted, i'll go back to my room in shame.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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One page back...

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,398.msg322190.html#msg322190

Nice selection of images though.
 

galgot

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
One page back...

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,398.msg322190.html#msg322190

Nice selection of images though.

Oups ! Sorry then :)
 

hesham

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Hi,

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a177061.pdf
 

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hesham

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Hi,

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19920013401.pdf
 

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hesham

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hesham said:
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a177061.pdf

What was it,908-833 or 985-420 ?.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a259291.pdf
 

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