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Blue Origin and New Shephard RLV

Michel Van

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now i get it why they separate the cargo/crew capsule
the Shephard landing under Maximum thrust deceleration, not very healthy for the customer

here one of experiments that have fly on this mission

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dugpPEp2y78
 

cluttonfred

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It'd odd how SpaceX has received so much more media attention yet the Blue Origin folks seem to be quietly succeeding. Well, not so odd, actually. The news never reports, "100,000 commercial airline flights took place today and none of them crashed." I only stumbled upon this program when I came across a Kickstarter campaign to fund a school project to send up an experiment on the New Shepard.

PS--Could a mod please correct the spelling in this topic title? It's Shepard (astronaut Alan) not shepherd (and his sheep).
 

TomS

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Blue Origin has been sticking to sub-orbital launches. Their repeat launch and landing is promising but their current vehicles don't come close to the performance or commercial success of Falcon 9.
 

Hobbes

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For a long time, Blue Origin simply didn't publicize their efforts.
 

sferrin

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Hobbes said:
For a long time, Blue Origin simply didn't publicize their efforts.
When have they ever put anything into orbit?
 

TomS

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sferrin said:
When have they ever put anything into orbit?
They haven't, yet. That does not mean what they are doing isn't worthy of attention. Space X solcved the orbital aprt first and now is turning to the reuse piece. Blue Origin is coming in from the other direction. I suspect SpaceX has the better idea, since reuse of orbital stages is different from reuse of suborbital ones. But I won't be surprised if Blue Origin does get to a competitive place with SpaceX for some launch categories at some point.
 

flanker

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One has to keep in mind that SpaceX was always about reuse. Falcon 1 was designed with reuse in mind - it just never worked. Heck, they even tested parachutes on Falcon 9 v1.0 - which didnt work. They started to seriously look into propulsive landings instead during 2009 timeframe or so, but technically all their vehicles were designed with reusability in mind from the start.
 

sferrin

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flanker said:
One has to keep in mind that SpaceX was always about reuse. Falcon 1 was designed with reuse in mind - it just never worked. Heck, they even tested parachutes on Falcon 9 v1.0 - which didnt work. They started to seriously look into propulsive landings instead during 2009 timeframe or so, but technically all their vehicles were designed with reusability in mind from the start.
They tried to parachute a 1st stage? I hadn't heard of that.
 

TomS

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Yeah, the Falcon 1 design called for Stage 1 to parachute for a water landing and then be recovered for reuse. But we know how well it works to reuse a stage after a landing in salt water (ask the Space Shuttle SRB guys). So they moved on to powered descent fairly quickly.
 

sferrin

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TomS said:
Yeah, the Falcon 1 design called for Stage 1 to parachute for a water landing and then be recovered for reuse. But we know how well it works to reuse a stage after a landing in salt water (ask the Space Shuttle SRB guys). So they moved on to powered descent fairly quickly.
I don't doubt it was designed for it I'd just never heard they actually tested a full size 1st stage parachute landing.
 

flanker

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I dont remember for sure if they did with Falcon 1, i am pretty sure they did try it, but they for sure tried with atleast one flight of Falcon 9 v1.0. Found out quickly that parachutes fundamentally suck for recovering stages. It semi worked in SRB case because it was basically a steel tube.
 

TomS

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SpaceX really doesn't like to talk about the Falcon 1 first stage recovery efforts, because they were really bad. One exec commented "we've recovered pieces of the first stages." It seems they were not getting to deploy the parachute because the stages were breaking up first.

https://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/09/falcon-rockets-to-land-on-thei.html
 

Moose

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I may not be recalling this exactly right, but i beleive the word over at NSF around the time that the chutes were dropped was that they figured the stages would still need a breaking burn in order to survive so why not just get rid of the chutes and concentrate on maturing the propulsive recovery idea.
 

robunos

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From the link posted in #51 :-

"The biggest near-term advantage [of recovery] won't even be the reuse of the expensive hardware, but something less obvious: the ability to flight-test it. No matter how carefully SpaceX builds its rockets today, each one is always flying for the very first time. This isn't nearly as good as being able to test each and every one repeatedly, to find and fix any problems before a rocket is entrusted with an expensive payload. Development of the new system should also be easier, because each new stage can start with short "bunny hop" tests and gradually work up to higher and faster flights, rather than having to do the full flight the first time."

Does anyone know if SpaceX has ever considered this, flight testing their rockets before using them to launch a payload?
Also, a really dumb question, but is the Falcon 1 still in use?

cheers,
Robin.
 

TomS

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In a sense, they already do. SpaceX does static fire tests of its rockets a week or so before each launch.

Falcn 1 is no longer offered. Payloads in that size can piggyback on a Falcon 9 main payload.
 

cluttonfred

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To bring the conversation back to Blue Origin's New Shepard, wouldn't having a man-rated, reusable, suborbital booster like this one be a great first step to a reusable launch system for small payloads? I know that Blue Origin has plans to apply to technology to other, larger orbital launch systems, but I mean putting a second stage of some kind on top of this suborbital rocket.
 

fredymac

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Sights and sounds of riding back down on the booster. I wonder when they plan to fly a test pilot passenger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPpdHYD8jo
 

fredymac

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Mr Bezos heard my question but doesn't answer until the very end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBzdshyuSGY
 

fredymac

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2nd video of presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLi6XJ2PlZc
 

fredymac

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Go to 1:03:00 for liftoff. Successful landing of booster occurs around 1:10:00. Capsule touchdown occurs around 1:13:00.

The video is a recording of a live webcast. There is a long blank area at the beginning followed by views of the rocket being prepped for flight.

This is the 4th flight of the same rocket. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to advance the flight schedule to include a manned test by year end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI-tGVFg7PU
 

Grey Havoc

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http://www.space.com/33214-blue-origin-lands-reusable-rocket-4th-time-webcast.html

http://spacenews.com/bezos-wins-heinlein-prize-commercial-space-award/
http://www.space.com/33244-bezos-wins-heinlein-prize-commercial-space-award.html
 

fredymac

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Animation of capsule escape mechanism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5i-f-D_A-M
 

TomS

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Jeff Bezos just unveiled Blue Origin's next planned project: New Glenn, a recoverable multi-stage rocket (2- and 3-stage options) with seven BE-4 engines in the main stage, putting it between Falcon Heavy and Delta IV Heavy in terms of sea-level thrust. No word on weight to orbit as yet. It's 23 feet in diameter and between 217 and 330 feet tall, depending on version. Dimensionally, it's a monster, much larger than Falcon Heavy. I guess that's the result of using methane instead of RP-1 for fuel.

http://spacenews.com/blue-origin-to-follow-suborbital-new-shepard-with-orbital-new-glenn/

Edit: Oh, yeah. The BO design after this one is New Armstrong, presumably designed for Luna (or maybe Mars?) missions. If New Glenn is in roughly the same class as Falcon heavy, it sounds like New Armstrong will roughly parallel SpaceX's MCT.
 

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sferrin

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TomS said:
Dimensionally, it's a monster, much larger than Falcon Heavy. I guess that's the result of using methane instead of RP-1 for fuel.
Just look at the difference between the Falcon Heavy and Delta IV with it's even less dense LH2.
 

fredymac

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When Bezos announced a new re-useable launcher I was thinking it would actually be sized below ULA/Falcon 9. I guess he has lots of spare cash to throw around. Anyways, he has already broken ground on a factory in Florida to build the launcher. I'm not sure if he intends to build the engine here as well. I just wonder about his economic model. A booster this size would have to cost a lot so it would have to service multiple customers per launch (like Ariane). 3.9M pounds of thrust matches a Falcon Heavy and I don't think Spacex is planning to launch many of those each year once they become available.
 

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TomS

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I have to remind myself is that thrust alone isn't the measure of "throw weight." Just because New Glenn comes up a bit lower than Falcon Heavy in sea-level thrust does not mean it's going to have less launch capacity, especially with that LH2/LOX upper stage.
 

sferrin

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TomS said:
I have to remind myself is that thrust alone isn't the measure of "throw weight." Just because New Glenn comes up a bit lower than Falcon Heavy in sea-level thrust does not mean it's going to have less launch capacity, especially with that LH2/LOX upper stage.
A good example of this is the Titan IVB compared to the Delta IV Heavy. Titan IVB is much smaller, weighs more, and has about double the liftoff thrust but carried less into orbit than Delta IV Heavy.
 

bobbymike

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http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/09/third-richest-in-world-jeff-bezos-wants.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2Fadvancednano+%28nextbigfuture%29&utm_content=FaceBook

Unrelated to this story but related in general I would recommend "The Millennial Project: Colonizing the Galaxy in Eight Easy Steps"

https://www.amazon.com/Millennial-Project-Colonizing-Galaxy-Eight/dp/0316771635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474227676&sr=8-1&keywords=the+millennial+project
 

Grey Havoc

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https://www.cnet.com/news/successful-blue-origin-rocket-test-possible-explosion-live-stream/
 

Michel Van

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the Fifth flight went well

Crew escape system works and booster came back home as nothing happened !
 

fredymac

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Skip to 1hr 6min 51Min25Sec mark for liftoff (looks like Blue Origin edited the video). Crew escape staging occurs about 45 seconds after.

Narrators mention this is the 5th and final flight for the booster rocket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqUIX3Z4r3k
 

cluttonfred

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Very cool! Somehow I find the Blue Origin program more compelling than the SpaceX one, not sure why, maybe less hype and just getting on with it step by step?
 

Grey Havoc

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http://gizmodo.com/blue-origin-shocks-everyone-even-itself-by-landing-ro-1787443961
 

Michel Van

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the launch and landing, glorious 8 minute

www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Q-IY9qhBs#t=490.290047588
 

sferrin

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I wasn't expecting the booster to keeping going like, "no problem", reach altitude, and then return for a landing.
 

TomS

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sferrin said:
I wasn't expecting the booster to keeping going like, "no problem", reach altitude, and then return for a landing.
Neither were BO. They expected to lose the booster.
 

Grey Havoc

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Michel Van said:
the launch and landing, glorious 8 minute

www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Q-IY9qhBs#t=490.290047588
Video is a bit glitchy at the moment.
 

fredymac

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They posted a new clip that cuts out all the waiting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESc_0MgmqOA

And slow mo of escape abort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWkvm7HpH8
 

yasotay

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As a 60's kid who planned on retiring to the moon colony, I am so glad to see that there are still people out there willing to move forward and get us out of the cradle.
 

Flyaway

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Blue Origin Prepares to Build Its Florida Rocket Launch Complex

Jeff Bezos' private space company is eyeing 2020 to begin flights of the orbital New Glenn rocket.

http://www.seeker.com/blue-origin-jeff-bezos-florida-launches-orbit-2252396999.html
 
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