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Big Gemini

blackstar

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Rush to your newsstands, the article is out!
 

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Archibald

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Very interesting article. Indeed the mystery remains of why a block III Apollo CSM was out of the running late 1971. My own theory is that Apollo was not considered a viable space station logistic vehicle. Big Gemini was the absolute minimum space station logistic vehicle, together with a "fat Dynasoar" that added wings and a payload bay (they called it the glider, because it had no engines). Both were launched by large Titan III vehicles.
 

Michel Van

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Archibald said:
Very interesting article. Indeed the mystery remains of why a block III Apollo CSM was out of the running late 1971. My own theory is that Apollo was not considered a viable space station logistic vehicle. Big Gemini was the absolute minimum space station logistic vehicle, together with a "fat Dynasoar" that added wings and a payload bay (they called it the glider, because it had no engines). Both were launched by large Titan III vehicles.

Apollo CSM block III had different goal Apollo Application Program
it primary task was to serve longer in space and support AAP hardware (wet Skylab), with RCS and Power
more Fuel for more powerful fuel cell, advance Life support system. and more Fuel for RCS.

but as Apollo and AAP died were no need for CSM Block III, rest fly with leftovers from CSM production..
 

blackstar

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Archibald said:
Very interesting article. Indeed the mystery remains of why a block III Apollo CSM was out of the running late 1971. My own theory is that Apollo was not considered a viable space station logistic vehicle. Big Gemini was the absolute minimum space station logistic vehicle, together with a "fat Dynasoar" that added wings and a payload bay (they called it the glider, because it had no engines). Both were launched by large Titan III vehicles.

I don't get that either. Big Gemini was going to be essentially new, so that meant higher development costs. But it did have the advantage that they could put more volume behind the cockpit. I think that McD could legitimately argue that they had done all the engineering work for the Gemini B, so that removed a key element of risk.

The Apollo CSM could not be expanded in volume. To add anything to it meant adding a pressurized cargo pod that would dock on front. That would have blocked the viewport for further dockings. Not impossible to address, but essentially by solving one problem (need for volume) they created a second one (need for new docking solution).

And of course keep in mind that North American may not have been at the top of their game. They might have been devoting all their resources to Apollo and not put their A-team on post-Apollo options. McD didn't have that problem by 1968. Their Gemini people had less to do with the Gemini B, so maybe they could put more resources on the Big Gemini proposal.

Anyway, feel free to support your local British Interplanetary Society.
 

blackstar

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XP67_Moonbat said:
Thanks Dwayne! My Haynes Gemini book is missing a bonus chapter

David Baker who did the Gemini book is the editor of Spaceflight and was very happy to get my article.
 

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From our very own Blackstar! Enjoy!
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2879/1
 

Michel Van

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i found this picture on Flickr
sadly the person who uploaded it, not answer my question on Source of this picture

on first look it like Big Apollo capsule
but second look you notice the Gemini Doors and Life-support system of Gemini capsule.

can this be variation on Big G ?
 

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SAustin16

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Blackstar,

Congratulations on an excellent article regarding one of my favorite subjects. Great to see Archipeppe's beautiful illustrations included (had not seen these versions of Big G previously).

Well done, Sir.
 

blackstar

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Thank you. That was in December 2015. There are many other articles on that site. Feel free to browse.
 

Michel Van

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thx, fightingirish
for notice me on source on that Big G picture
 

archipeppe

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SAustin16 said:
Blackstar,

Congratulations on an excellent article regarding one of my favorite subjects. Great to see Archipeppe's beautiful illustrations included (had not seen these versions of Big G previously).

Well done, Sir.

Thank you for the words of appreciation.

Ciao
Giuseppe
 

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Would Big Gemini have allowed a shirt sleeve environment?

The actual Gemini did allowed a shirt sleeve environment, it is easy to understand that long duration mission like the Gemini 7A simply could't happened if astronauts would fit pressurized suits alla the time.
Considering that the BigG would have a far greater volume than the actual Gemini there is no reason to not have the same shirt sleeve environment.
 

Archibald

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Pressure suits for 14 days inside the already cramped Gemini... would have driven the crew insane. :eek:
 

Archibald

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Something just dawned on me...
MOL was similar in diameter to the Titan core carrying it, that is, 3.05 m. It can be clearly seen in the 1966 flight test pictures.
By contrast,
Archipeppe artwork and other sources says that Big G diameter was far superior, up to 4.3 m. In turn this mean that unlike MOL, Big G would make a Titan III-M look like having a hammerhead fairing - as on Titan III-E Centaur and Titan IV.

Never thought about this before, silly me.

Note: for you imperial units aficionados, 3.05 m is 10 ft while 14 ft is 4.27 m.
 
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blackstar

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I've posted this to another forum, but the entire multi-volume Big-G contract proposal is in a publicly accessible archive in Houston and it is in very good condition. It would require some work to go there and copy and scan it, but it's a really good, thick document.
 

Archibald

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Orionblamblam, we need your skills !!! I think a lot of people (including my little self) would be willing to pay for that thing. There is a good business case there.
 

Orionblamblam

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Orionblamblam, we need your skills !!! I think a lot of people (including my little self) would be willing to pay for that thing. There is a good business case there.

It'd be strange to go all the way to Houston when I have copies of all volumes sitting on a shelf. the only real problem is, IIRC, that they're marked "Gov't employees and contractors only." If it can be shown to be publicly available somewhere, then that's different...
 

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Where did you got thaaaaat ?
Its from somewhere in this thread..

 

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