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Belgian Triangular UFO: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

Orionblamblam

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Mysterious UFO made of polystyrene http://www.smh.com.au/world/mysterious-ufo-made-of-polystyrene-20110727-1hzzn.html

A photo of an unidentified flying object high in the Belgian sky has been puzzling NASA scientists for over two decades.
But the mystery has now been solved: the man who took the shot has spoken out, and admitted the contraption was a fake he made from polystyrene.
ipad-art-wide-UFO_BELGIUM1-420x0.jpg
 

bazz

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What about the incident in Belgium where two F16s chased a black triangle was that fake to?

(Serious question no sarcasm :) )
 
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sublight

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Orionblamblam said:
Mysterious UFO made of polystyrene http://www.smh.com.au/world/mysterious-ufo-made-of-polystyrene-20110727-1hzzn.html

A photo of an unidentified flying object high in the Belgian sky has been puzzling NASA scientists for over two decades.
But the mystery has now been solved: the man who took the shot has spoken out, and admitted the contraption was a fake he made from polystyrene.
ipad-art-wide-UFO_BELGIUM1-420x0.jpg
Right story, wrong picture.

Scott, the whole Belgian "flap" seems to bother you quite a bit. Do you mind elaborating on why its such a sore spot for you?
 

Machdiamond

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Let's not jump to conclusions here:
Thousands of Belgians saw "something" during several nights, including credible witnesses such as the police and many were eager to take photographic evidence of it.
The news here is that someone confessed that his photo was fake. And his photo became the symbol of that UFO wave.
Quite frankly, it is not because his photo was fake that suddenly the thousands of witness reports are fake as well.
If someone had confessed that he was trailing his contraption on a long cable behind an ultralight at night all that time (what I personally believe and is not what is reported here), then it would be an entirely different news event.
 

Orionblamblam

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sublight said:
Scott, the whole Belgian "flap" seems to bother you quite a bit. Do you mind elaborating on why its such a sore spot for you?

It is a major public manifestation of anti-science. Did people see *something*? Probably. Did *any* of them have enough evidence to state categorically what it was? No. Did that stop lots of people from proclaiming that they knew what it was? No.
 

Stargazer2006

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Orionblamblam said:
sublight said:
Scott, the whole Belgian "flap" seems to bother you quite a bit. Do you mind elaborating on why its such a sore spot for you?

It is a major public manifestation of anti-science. Did people see *something*? Probably. Did *any* of them have enough evidence to state categorically what it was? No. Did that stop lots of people from proclaiming that they knew what it was? No.

BUT... it was enough for them to say what is WASN'T: something familiar.
 

Orionblamblam

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Stargazer2006 said:
BUT... it was enough for them to say what is WASN'T: something familiar.

You'd be amazed at how quickly the "familiar" becomes "unfamiliar" under the right circumstances. Being predisposed to seeing a fantastical UFO - such as being within the height of a "UFO Flap" - will predispose the most honest observer into mistaking a cloud or an airplane or a Pink Floyd pig balloon as being something noteworthy.

Hell, look at all those dreary "ghost hunter" shows that are cluttering up the cable airwaves: every damned creak, breeze, bug or dust mote is the ghost of dear old granny.
 
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sublight

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Orionblamblam said:
sublight said:
Scott, the whole Belgian "flap" seems to bother you quite a bit. Do you mind elaborating on why its such a sore spot for you?

It is a major public manifestation of anti-science. Did people see *something*? Probably. Did *any* of them have enough evidence to state categorically what it was? No. Did that stop lots of people from proclaiming that they knew what it was? No.

Was this a pet peeve of yours before I arrived at SPF or after?
 

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By definition proclaiming "something" to be a UFO isn't saying you know you what you saw though?


Personally I'm interested in finding out what it was. If you're not, fair enough, but you keep coming back :D
 

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Orionblamblam, I appreciate your sarcasm and firm support for Ockham's razor. I myself am not an aeronautical engineer, but due to my interest in aviation, I can tell what is evidently an aircraft, and what probably is not one with perhaps greater accuracy than folks who hardly tell an airplane from a helicopter. Have you heard of the Tinley Park sighting, back in, if I'm right, 2008? Well, I'm based in Poland, and on May 21 about 60 km southeast of Warsaw I was at a friend's wedding party. Bored dead, I spent a lot of time outside, taking in the beautiful forest and the lake in daylight, and the stars when it got dark. About 9 pm I noticed in the northeast, just above the forest line, three red lights fixed in the night sky, forming an equilateral triangle. The lights were probably part of one object, as at one point the whole triangle rotated slowly to the right about 30 degrees and the distance between the lights never changed. I estimate the length of the object at about 300 metres. After about ten minutes clouds covered the lights and they were seen no more. If the Belgians, the citizens of Tinley Park and I saw the same object, I don't really think it was a helicopter(s), a kite, a hanglider, an airship or weather balloon. If you ask me, I don't think it was man-made at all.
Regards
Janusz
 

Orionblamblam

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sublight said:
Was this a pet peeve of yours before I arrived at SPF or after?

What're you? Special?

Gridlock said:
By definition proclaiming "something" to be a UFO isn't saying you know you what you saw though?

True. But from seeing "something" we now have hordes of people who believe that it's a stealth blimp (with great big Here I Am lights), or an aline spaceship from the *dumbest* race in the universe, to a Nazi flying saucer piloted, no doubt, by Marylin Monroe.


I'm interested in finding out what it was. If you're not,

You mistake a refusal to accept any crackpot explanation without evidence for a lack of interest in finding out what it actually *is.*

There's a wide gulf between "I Want To Believe" and "I Want To Know."

Foxglove said:
If the Belgians, the citizens of Tinley Park and I saw the same object

*If.*

The "object" you describe sound very much like three objects in some sort of formation. The Phoenix sighting, for instance, that some people though was one giant vehicle turned out to be a string of flares. Things seen on or near the horizon take on properties that they simply do not have due to human perception.
 

Machdiamond

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Bringing Marilyn Monroe to the discussion is not very constructive.
I enjoy SPF because it is different from the crap we are seeing elsewhere, and the way this thread was started does not hold to that standard.
Turning unidentified objects stories systematically into derision 1) does not help identifying them 2) is too easy 3) annoys me to no end because that is why we still have those stupid Rosswell stories wasting our time.
 

Orionblamblam

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Machdiamond said:
Turning unidentified objects stories systematically into derision 1) does not help identifying them 2) is too easy 3) annoys me to no end because that is why we still have those stupid Rosswell stories wasting our time.

Uh... no. The bullcrap-myths do not exist because people mock them; they exist because people *refuse* to mock them out of existence.
 

Stargazer2006

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Plus: Saying one saw a UFO is perfectly alright with me since it means an "unidentified flying object", and therefore whatever is not a 100% clearly identified aircraft, blimp or helicopter has to fall into that category, like it or not. No doubt that many a secret aircraft (think of Have Blue, Senior Trend or Tacit Blue for instance) were undoubtedly "UFOs" until people knew what they were... Whatever undisclosed vehicle is flying at present, either as part of governmental agency's research programs or in military operations, is just that: a U.F.O. The fact that people can't think of these three letters without summoning tales of Twilight Zone gremlins or Roswell grays is sad, because it diverts the attention from some genuine phenomena by ridiculing those who try to explain what they saw or those who try to make sense out of it.

But back to Orionblamblam's ongoing (and most annoying) attitude of systematic irony and mockery... There is indeed a gap between "I want to know" and "I want to believe", as you said, Scott. However, your "I DON'T want to believe" attitude is just as dogmatic and blindly proselyte as that of someone ready to believe just anything. Reminds me of what Jesus-Christ said: "Even if they saw disappeared ones rising from the dead, they still wouldn't believe." I am certain that, just like Agent Dana Scully still refused to believe in outer space aliens even after being abducted by a spaceship, and still refused to believe in a massive conspiracy even after discovering a deadly implant at the base of her neck, you, Scott, would refuse to acknowledge something that does not fit into your logic and your views on things, even if you had hard evidence right before you...

One good example that comes to mind is how you (and a few others) have systematically ridiculed the notion of a football-field-wide blimp, while the very concept appears in publicly released official documents as early as the 1980s.
 

Orionblamblam

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Stargazer2006 said:
However, your "I DON'T want to believe" attitude is

... a strawman.

Reminds me of what Jesus-Christ said: "Even if they saw disappeared ones rising from the dead, they still wouldn't believe."

Fine. Show me a disappeared one rising from the grave.

Scott, would refuse to acknowledge something that does not fit into your logic and your views on things, even if you had hard evidence right before you...

Put it to the test. Present actual evidence.

One good example that comes to mind is how you (and a few others) have systematically ridiculed the notion of a football-field-wide blimp, while the very concept appears in publicly released official documents as early as the 1980s.

Really? What "officially released documents" show that the US *actually* fields one of these stealthy super-blimps? Not that they've been studied, or that someone who isn't actually in a position to know *thinks* they exist. Point out actual evidence. I'll wait.

Besides: the stealth blimp seems to be shrinking. Wasn't it supposed to be a mile long?

Gah. This is the problem with anti-skeptics: you seem to believe that a refusal to accept flimsy or nonsensical evidence is the same as a refusal to accept *all* evidence. Sorry, but no.
 

Machdiamond

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Orionblamblam said:
Uh... no. The bullcrap-myths do not exist because people mock them; they exist because people *refuse* to mock them out of existence.
People have been mocking them out since Wells, and I apparently I have to break the news to you that it does not work.
Youtube and Liveleak are perfect examples. All the time you have people screaming "look the UFO I have filmed!", and it takes only a few minutes or a few hours for someone to comment "look that is the rocket launch you saw" or something to that effect, a bit like that Chinese Rocket launch off the California coast nonsense recently that the media became hysterical about.
If you respond "look that was not an alien spaceship and you are a moron", that is not a useful contribution.
 

Orionblamblam

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Machdiamond said:
If you respond "look that was not an alien spaceship and you are a moron", that is not a useful contribution.

Perhaps, but "it was not a blimp/spaceship, it was styrofoam," *is* a useful contribution. Going "HA!" at the same time is just proper etiquette.
jesus-was-an-alien-thumb.jpg

People have been mocking them out since Wells, and I apparently I have to break the news to you that it does not work.

Actually, it works better than reason and rational discourse. As the saying goes you cannot reason someone out of a position they got themselves into via reasonable means. Be it superstitions, Holocaust denial, Apollo hoaxism, 9/11 conspiracies or whatever, reason Just Doesn't Work. But ceaseless mockery, pointing and laughing, will *sometimes* cause some of the True Believers to look inwards.
i-cant-explain-it-so-it-must-be-real-thumb.jpg

Plus: when you devote a great deal of time and effort to rational debate only to see the other guy basically ignore it and babble on incoherently, often turning your arguement into so much intellectu-mush that he uses to support his own claims, it is disheartening. So if you are not going to succeed with reason, at least make yourself feel better with laughter. You won't get anywhere by being a sour loser. If you do not know the Riddle of Sarcasm, Crom will throw you out of Valhalla and laugh at you.
its-not-aliens-but-im-almost-certain-that-its-aliens-thumb.jpg
 

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I find myself on the side of Scott with regard to UFOs, super secret super stealthy hypersonic Area 51 aircraft, etc and I am someone who really wants to believe, really hopes they exist (with a black budget of $50 billion they better is one opinion I hold :mad: ) I am worried if aliens exist because it is much more likely they will be "Independence Day" then "ET".

But we have to have near undoubted and repeatable proof not unfocused pictures and "I think I saw something" testimony. You now have almost ubiquitous video coverage via cell phones of the entire planet yet each new "sighting" is the same blurry BS "shaky camera" of "something" we are supposed to believe is from another planet or from Area 51.

I am open to be proven wrong I just don't see the evidence that will do that........yet.

Scott is a man of science and reason and I respect him for his views all he is saying is, "show me the evidence".
 

Orionblamblam

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bobbymike said:
Scott is a man of science and reason

And sarcasm. And smartassery. Don't forget the smartassery.

and I respect him for his views all he is saying is, "show me the evidence".

I'd be thrilled to find out that the US actually does have a mile-long stealth blimp. I'd be thrilled goofy to find out that the US actually built, tested and fielded a Mach 6 scramjet powered intercontinental SR-71 replacement. And I'd be thrilled absofragginlutely beyond belief to find out that interstellar FTL transport and antigravity machines are floating around over the Earth. But just because I'd love these things to be true doesn't make the threshhold of evidence for them any less.

Hell, I'd love to find out that I'm actually worth a billion dollars US. But I'm not going to start buying mansions, fast cars, fast jets and fast women until I get the bank to run the numbers and confirm for me that I actually *am* a billionaire.

I'm appalled - though no longer surprised at this point - to find that this is a level of skepticism that many people not only don't share, but *refuse* to even contemplate.
 

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Machdiamond said:
If you respond "look that was not an alien spaceship and you are a moron", that is not a useful contribution.

Maybe not for the moron. But it lets the rest of us know a moron is afoot. That has value.
 

SOC

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Abraham Gubler said:
Machdiamond said:
If you respond "look that was not an alien spaceship and you are a moron", that is not a useful contribution.

Maybe not for the moron. But it lets the rest of us know a moron is afoot. That has value.

;D

The way I see it, there have been a ton of people claiming things for a long time with a grand total of zero accumulated evidence. Persistently putting forth an idea that has no basis in fact qualifies you to be a moron, or it at least excuses someone else from labeling you as such on the basis of you still having zero evidence whatsoever, and in some cases evidence exists to sink your unfounded theory. I know where there's a whole forum of 'em if anyone is interested.

OK two, I forgot about the ridiculous Flat Earthers.
 

Michel Van

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i look into "Vage d'OVNI sur la Belgique" by SOBEPS


ipad-art-wide-UFO_BELGIUM1-420x0.jpg

This is a Clean up digital version of original diapositive from 1990


So wat happend ?
in April 1990 Patrick M. and Friend at work, build for fun a UFO model after eyewitness reports and take picture.
the Diapostivies end up in drawer at work, were are coincidental found by a Work colleague, Guy Mossay
Who also a lokal pess phptographer, He get the Copyright and sell copys to press agentur BELGA
then RTL-TVI Journalist miss Dominique Demoulin get a Copy in here hands and Ask SOBEPS to find the guy
the Belgium UFO Investigation Group find Patrik M. 4 months later
during April and July 1990 the foto became THE MOST FAMOUS UFO PICTURE of his time
so Patrick M has to find a coverstory...
 

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I've seen several UFO's that could be adequately explained as being (and indeed turned to be) an ultralight at night, illegal homebuilt blimp (was in the paper the day after), searchlights from a nightclub in a town 20 miles away dancing on the clouds at night or my dad's homebuilt r/c saucer he uses to mess with people.

The only UFO I still have no explanation for came flying indoors looking like a shimmering little cigar, a few mm's in lenght. I couldn't see any wings on it nor legs that would give it away as an insect. I also don't think it was an insect because my Dobermann was very afraid of it and refused to go near it. It also emitted some strange kind of high-frequency noise. Not at all loud but rather just slightly noticeable. Anyway the thing then proceeded to land on the bookshelf and then was absolutely still. Dad and I went to have a closer look on it but again, just a shimmering cigar-shaped thing with no legs nor wings. Since we couldn't make out what it was, we went on doing whatever we were doing before that, and when we checked back on it the thing was gone.
 

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Evil Flower said:
I've seen several UFO's that could be adequately explained as being (and indeed turned to be) an ultralight at night, illegal homebuilt blimp (was in the paper the day after), searchlights from a nightclub in a town 20 miles away dancing on the clouds at night or my dad's homebuilt r/c saucer he uses to mess with people.

The only UFO I still have no explanation for came flying indoors looking like a shimmering little cigar, a few mm's in lenght. I couldn't see any wings on it nor legs that would give it away as an insect. I also don't think it was an insect because my Dobermann was very afraid of it and refused to go near it. It also emitted some strange kind of high-frequency noise. Not at all loud but rather just slightly noticeable. Anyway the thing then proceeded to land on the bookshelf and then was absolutely still. Dad and I went to have a closer look on it but again, just a shimmering cigar-shaped thing with no legs nor wings. Since we couldn't make out what it was, we went on doing whatever we were doing before that, and when we checked back on it the thing was gone.

Since your description and the location of the sighting (indoors) seems to indicate that you could have thrown a blanket over it or a bucket to capture it (or picked it up for that matter), why didn't you? Just think of how important a discovery this might have been.

I once caught a big bad ass crow this way (blanket) that was much scarier than this object appeared to have been. :D
 

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OT: "... look at all those dreary "ghost hunter" shows... "


Those.
You know they don't edit the take ?
What you hear is what there was ??
Yeah...


'Most Haunted' did one on Speke Hall, near Liverpool UK.


You'd *never* have guessed that Speke Hall backs on to the main runway of Liverpool John Lennon Airport, there's 24/7 working, and there should have been *at least* five aircraft movements during show-time...
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
 

Michel Van

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Evil Flower said:
I've seen several UFO's that could be adequately explained as being (and indeed turned to be) an ultralight at night, illegal homebuilt blimp (was in the paper the day after), searchlights from a nightclub in a town 20 miles away dancing on the clouds at night or my dad's homebuilt r/c saucer he uses to mess with people.


Wat i saw back in Eupen at November 1989 to April 1990
was NOT searchlights from a nightclub, i know those lights who goes up into sky
the unknown flying thing was not that, converse it had powerfull searchlight!
also not a Ultralight or a Parasail, because it fly very quietly and slow, so copy that with Ultralight you cut engine off and glide
but it stay not long in sky,
Wat i saw fly very slowly from right to left part of sky, from town of Hauset to next town of Balen.
if that had be Ultralight with cut off engine it had hit the abbeychurch in center of Eupen...
also it not Hotair balloon because:
-Nobody would be so crazy to fly a Hotair Balloon in ice cold November night
-fire up the burner you see the Balloonhull and flames for miles but no one saw that.
-the unknown flying thing change it curse Wat a Hotair balloon do not


Blimp ?
yes that most logical explication, only question is Military or civilian prototype ?
 
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sublight

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The obvious contradiction here is that there are SPF members that work in the business that could definitively answer to what is really a classified craft and what is just funny lights. But they cant talk. They cant even hint that they could talk. Some members know this, and they would just prefer it if you would shut up about things people cant talk about. It attracts too much attention. So there it is. There were funny things flying around. People saw them, but nobody here can talk about them until its all out in the open.
 

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bobbymike said:
Since your description and the location of the sighting (indoors) seems to indicate that you could have thrown a blanket over it or a bucket to capture it (or picked it up for that matter), why didn't you? Just think of how important a discovery this might have been.

I once caught a big bad ass crow this way (blanket) that was much scarier than this object appeared to have been. :D
Well I seem to recall we did photograph it, but if we did it's bound to be in some old 1980's album at my parents place.
 

Orionblamblam

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sublight said:
The obvious contradiction here is that there are SPF members that work in the business that could definitively answer to what is really a classified craft and what is just funny lights. But they cant talk.

And how many people do you think will, upon serious reflection, give that line of arguement any weight whatsoever? It is basiclaly just another form of "they agree with me on email."

"Arguement from authority" is generally frowned upon, but of course it does carry weight in debates of this kind. The head of the Skunk Works signs up and posts, "yeah, we've got X, Y and Z" then that arguement does carry some authority. But "arguement from authority" is *entirely* devoid of merit when you cannot even name the authority.

God Himself told me to tell you to knock off the "experts agree, but can't go public" line. He'd tell you himself, but you know... busy, busy, busy.
 

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Orionblamblam said:
And smartassery. Don't forget the smartassery.
What? I thought you were still waiting for your certificate in "smartassery"? Didn't you have like 4 or 5 more hours of political-rhetoric bashing needed to get that?

Randy ;)
 
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Orionblamblam said:
sublight said:
The obvious contradiction here is that there are SPF members that work in the business that could definitively answer to what is really a classified craft and what is just funny lights. But they cant talk.

And how many people do you think will, upon serious reflection, give that line of arguement any weight whatsoever? It is basiclaly just another form of "they agree with me on email."

"Arguement from authority" is generally frowned upon, but of course it does carry weight in debates of this kind. The head of the Skunk Works signs up and posts, "yeah, we've got X, Y and Z" then that arguement does carry some authority. But "arguement from authority" is *entirely* devoid of merit when you cannot even name the authority.

God Himself told me to tell you to knock off the "experts agree, but can't go public" line. He'd tell you himself, but you know... busy, busy, busy.
I'm not saying it to perpetuate the argument. I am saying it because its a fact. There are lots of members here who cant talk about their work. That's a fact. The "ridicule it till it dies" strategy isn't working. People are giving pushback. You've even got a forum member here who saw it for himself, and telling him he is full of baloney is not going to help. The truth is, you don't have any answers for these people. Other Aero industry SPF members cant give an answer, so that is that. Just say "that's that" and lets be done. The ten pages of ridicule is just a waste of time.

And stop spelling argument wrong.
 

Orionblamblam

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sublight said:
I'm not saying it to perpetuate the argument. I am saying it because its a fact.

*Prove* that it is a fact. As opposed to something you've just decided to invent, or accept at face value. If these forum members have such access to sensitive data that they are afraid to go public with it... why the hell are they telling *you?*

Having had a "Secret" level clearance, I can assure you that I never told nobody nuthin' that they weren't supposed to know. You know why? Because when you have access to secrets, the government has access to *you.* And email, private m,essages, IMs, twits... they are about as secure and private as jumping in front of the "Today Show" cameras and flashing your junk.

And stop spelling argument wrong.

Noe. If the Brits are allouwed to put extrauneous "u's" every daumned place, then I can throw "e's" about with similaur abandoun.
 

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'You've even got a forum member here who saw it for himself, and telling him he is full of baloney is not going to help. The truth is, you don't have any answers for these people. '

According to your logic, anybody who sees something unusual in the sky and tells others about it would be full of baloney. Sure you don't have any answers, because you don't know them and chances are that even 'those who know', actually don't know either.
 

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This will go very off-topic, I apologize in advance. It concerns the way people react to unexplained stuff. You'll maybe need to know what daphnids are.

Many years ago I was a biology-student looking for a subject for my thesis. I settled on daphnid behaviour in reaction to light stimuli - what it boils down to: they go up when it gets dark, they go down when it gets lighter. The speed with which they swim up or down is related to the speed with which light intensity increases or decreases; finding the exact relation tells you something about the way daphnids are 'wired'. My professor and several other students had been at it for years, it was a nice, well-defined subject for students to try their hand at scientific research. The kind of research that never attracts any attention outside academia, and little enough within. The professor started research on the subject when he was a student himself, but originally intended to study another aspect of daphnid behaviour: sometimes a group of daphnids gather in a swarm that 'swirls', the animals swimming in a synchronised spiral pattern. Unfortunately, the conditions which triggered this behaviour were unknown, and after long hours of fruitless waiting for 'swirling' the subject was dropped and 'daphnid behaviour in reaction to light stimuli' was the chosen subject for several students thoughout the years, learning much about how to conduct experimental research in biology. And actually learning something about daphnids, too.

Still awake? Good.

Daphnids swimming up and down is a well-covered subject among those students. Daphnid swarms 'swirling' they know bugger all about. For some reason, reporting a UFO can attract national attention, reporting daphnid 'swirling' can't. Because it isn't cool. The UFO may or may not be imaginary, may be an unusually fat pigeon or string of flares, but the way people react to a UFO primarily tells you something about the way people are 'wired', just as the way daphnids react to light intensity changes tells you something about the way daphnids are 'wired'.

My two cents.
 

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