BBC Two: Cold War, Hot Jets

Arjen

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Planned for airing Friday 8th November, 21:00: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03h8r3y

First of two one-hour episodes.
Second episode Friday 15th November.

Image with announcement shows someone standing in front of Fairey Delta 2 :)
 

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Nice footage. Well made in typical BBC fashion. There is (shouldn't be surprising) a strong British bias. The end of EP 2 comes to mind, where the TSR2 is almost hailed as the best thing since chocolate ice cream without mentioning the huge problems the project encountered. I've always been fond of the TSR2, but those problems should be mentioned in any depiction of the project.
 
Well, apart from the usual TV OOPA, I'd rather see this style of programme on the telly than Bread and Circuses talent shows or the contents of a storage locker. So I applauded the makers for doing it. Still vilifying Sandys of course.

Of course, programmes such as these are not aimed at us, but the punters who know nowt.

Chris

OOPA? Out Of Place Aircraft - eg the "Lincoln" that is shot down in ep2 is a B-17, the "MiG-15s" in ep1 that are 17s and the odd Lavochkin La-15. My favourite is a History Channel programme on the Bay of Pigs that cut A-26 Invader footage with B-26 Marauders. Could be a new thread actually.
 
Episode 2 has the story of V-bombers' replacement by ballistic missiles while footage of 4 Nike Ajax being raised to launching position is shown. I didn't mind, it was nice to see anyway. Next bit of footage is of a Thor with RAF roundels, that sort of compensates.

I very much liked the stories of the people who were involved at the time. Sergei Khrushchev was a welcome surprise.

Yes, it was UK-centered. If any *insert-any-other-nationality-here* outfit would decide to make a similar effort I'd love to see that too.
 
Sergei Khrushchev is one of the most interviewed person these days (Cuba Crisis, Kennedy's assassination etc.).
 
Ah.

Right...

Next appearance, Dancing With The Stars, then?
 
Arjen said:
Ah.

Right...

Next appearance, Dancing With The Stars, then?

I spoiled my pants, thnx for a great laugh.
Still... He's one of the last witnesses of that particular political place and era... If it gives him a nice apple for a rainy day, why not?
 
On a serious note, the mention of the RAF U-2 pilots tweaked my curiosity again. This is well-known, dates back to Lashmar's 'Spy Flights of the Cold War' in 1996 and an accompanying TV programme.

Today, in the pub, waiting to see Gravity, we were discussing why this is still restricted. Aside from the typically British Government paranoia, anyone think of any reason this is still classified?

Here's one to get you started - was there an embarrassing prang?

JCF - I can't see Mr Sandbrook, frequent scribbler in the Daily Mail, being swayed by any BBC left-wing bias. His books don't strike me as having a particularly left-wing view. Mind you I did read them on the beach.

Chris
 
Missing files, nowt new there, but why are the pilots keeping schtum? Smacks of an Ultra level of schtumness.

Chris
 
Official Secrets Act. The penalties for going public can be quite considerable if the authorities cut up rough - eg, loss of pension.
 
That will explain why the pilots themselves aren't talking, but why the silence on the missions? Why are they treated so differently? The Ju-Jitsu missions were, if anything, more ambitious, dangerous and provocative. Same for the Canberra missions in the early 50s. What is so different about the U-2 missions? The Americans seem happy to talk, but as Paul Lashmar stated back in 96, it was HMG that has kept this under wraps.

Chris
 
I think the silence over the missions probably has little to do with the RAF-manned missions or that the RAF participated in the CIA programme, but rather more generally the UKUSA intelligence sharing agreements since 1948. Certainly British intelligence was getting a share of the product, perhaps from the entire U-2 programme more generally and the US was getting British intel and GCHQ sigint data too. The RAF U-2 participation might have been an extension of the RB-45 programme but more likely it was tied in with something else.

Richard Aldrich's book 'GCHQ' has an interesting entry on U-2 "In April 1956, coinciding with Khrushchev's visit to Britain, some of the first examples of the CIA's high-flying U-2 spy planes had arrived at RAF Lakenheath... but some of their missions were also sigint-orientated. Eden now decided that this, and a host of other special operations, had to stop, and the U-2s were sent to alternative bases in Germany." Aldrich sees this as a result of the Bridges inquiry which looked at the Crabb Affair and made some wider reviews on the balance of intelligence and political risks. Perhaps Eden was more worried that the British link to the U-2 programme might leaked out then, and perhaps that was the start of sending RAF pilots to join the CIA pilot teams in Germany and Turkey rather than some home-based RAF involvement originally planned?


Generally, I enjoyed the recent James Holland series, not great but better than we have seen, though episode one was probably better. Interesting that he had obviously read Jeffrey Engel's article ‘The Surly Bonds: American Cold War Constraints on British Aviation’ in Enterprise & Society (2005), which reveals the extent of US-UK tensions over jet technology, including the stuff Holland mentions on the US attempts to cripple Comet and the UK's successful breaking of the Western ban on aviation exports to Communist countries in 1958 and the subsequent Ministry of Aviation deception which saw US radios and equipment fitted to Chinese Viscounts despite diplomatic promises not to do so. Nice to see some interesting shots, there were a few clangers although seeing La-15s was nice and episode two included a very brief shot of a BTV Blue Boar test vehicle and the Blue Steel test round dropped from a Vulcan. Repeated the same old erroneous "three V-bombers" stuff which totally omits the Sperrin.
The Sandbrook programmes are somewhat harder to define. Basically his books cover the same themes but better. His presenting style seems a little odd to me, too many soundbites and over-emphasised words. My parents were unconvinced that he knew what he was talking about, they don't remember themselves or their parents ever brooding over the nature of nuclear war or the kind of moral schism he tries to invoke. I think it confirms what I've always thought, cultural history over-emphasises what really moves the masses, in reality for most folks (in Britain at least) the Cold War didn't exist as a daily threat, except for those danger years of 1960-63 when things seemed to be spiralling out of control. Largely since 1991, the Cold War has been totally ignored in Britain and how many programmes on it have we had since then? It's welcoming to see more on the era which I feel is in danger of being completely forgotten in favour of WW2 history, which kind of dismantles Sandbrook's theory everyone was so worked up about it. More likely family Blitz/war tales had more cultural impact (Peter Hennessy's argument). The idea that pop music was an ideological weapon seems a little over-simplified but at least he didn't go as far as Niall Ferguson who argued a few years back that denim jeans were a "killer app" for smashing the Iron Curtain...
Maybe we didn't need TSR.2s after all, just a few Vulcans with loudspeakers playing Beatles 'folk music' and dropping payloads of Levi's over Western Russia? ;D

Still better though than Channel 4s 'Kennedy's Nuclear Nightmare' with odd arty photographic scenes, jumbled photos even worse than the La-15 mistakes, tiny subtitles you couldn't see and lack of any strong narrative to tell you anything you didn't already know.
 
I think a lot of line of thought that is common to British aerospace docos comes from producers and interviewers who might not be experts in the field talking to disenchanted engineers and officers and the like. If most of your information on the subject of the TSR-2 (or CF-105, blue streak etc.) you could easily come to unfavourable conclusions. Obviously the F-111 looked like a rational decision, the fact that it didnt shake out as many people hoped wasnt clear then but its a convenient straw man now for people who argue that a vibrant and inovative aerospace industry was snuffed out by short sighted bean counters who were swayed by big promises from accross the pond.

Being Australian I was always fascinated by the F-111, seems like a plane that neaver really had its day.
 

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