- Apr 27, 2008
- Reaction score
Couple of different images from Reuters, better view of Diamond shaped aperture on top of Tail:
Stargazer2006 said:New pics are a confirmation for me that there seem to be two distinct tail units in the debris: one that is smooth and looks more like a mockup than an actual helicopter tail (the one in most pictures) and one that was darkened by the destruction of the damaged helicopter and is crooked. The former is the one that was found outside the precinct; the latter presumably lay on the inside. This to me points towards a possible collision between two choppers... But I'm willing to be proven wrong if some conclusive evidence/convincing explanation is shown.
quellish said:On the ground observers only saw/heard 4 helicopters, though obviously this is not very reliable information. They were stealth helicopters
There are a limited number of places you could realistically flight test a low observable helicopter
If the radar-evading technology worked, it “would be a true statement” to say that the use of the low-observable Black Hawks was evidence that the United States gave Pakistani authorities no advance warning of the mission, the retired special operations aviator added.
Gridlock said:If the radar-evading technology worked, it “would be a true statement” to say that the use of the low-observable Black Hawks was evidence that the United States gave Pakistani authorities no advance warning of the mission, the retired special operations aviator added.
If you want to play High Stakes Military Operations then I'd suggest flying an attack formation of aircraft towards the largest training academy of a nuclear power that is for all intents and purposes at war with a nuclear neighbour pretty much counts as an all-in.
You have to look at this operation in the context of there being at least 2 components to "Pakistan": the government and the military/ISI. The former likely knew about this mission, if only one or two people, but the latter (which fairly obviously has been playing either landlord or jailer these past 6 years - Occams razor again) could not know.
So either you roll out every last black program you've got to ensure you perform the least subtle assassination in recent times or you inform the government in advance but agree to say you didn't, for domestic reasons. I'd assume in this instance we got some semi-black helicopters and some very black phone calls.
I bet Obama took a big old slug of whisky when the aircraft went feet wet and nobody tried to start a nuclear war on the subcontinent.
bobbymike said:To think that some helicopters would cause them to start hurling nukes around, please.
Gridlock said:ABC News are reporting that locals only heard helicopters "when the were overhead" which of course negates neither stealth-then-unstealthy or all-stealthy hypotheses. But predictably both electricity and cell services went and came back for the duration of the mission, so I'd be fairly confident saying that Pakistani air defence radar was plagued by glitches that evening (ideally unnoticed ones).
Gridlock said:During the day, sure. But who operates interesting stuff during the day if they can avoid it? And the whole world is used to having police or ambulance or executive helicopters overhead, so I'd bet you could fly this thing round happily and only ever worry about the odd report surfacing.. And there have been odd reports of silent helicopters for years, of course. Even around Waco IIRC.
Gridlock said:Are there any attributes of LO rotors that would increase the chances of encountering VRS?
Stargazer2006 said:Oh dear. "Geronimo", besides being the codename for Bin Laden,was also... an Apache!
TomS said:I wouldn't get too hung up on those reports of two helicopters. It's probably an artifact of the very confused initial reporting where the Pakistanis were claiming it was a training accident or shootdown of one of their own helicopters. The fact that debris from the mystery bird ended up on both sides of the compound's wall probably contributed to the confusion.
crusader97 said:Has anyone else considered that this may be (at least partly) the outcome of the Senior Citizen program? Or possibly a less costly competitor? Everyone has assumed all along that SC was most likely a large delta shaped VSTOL aircraft at least in concept - but what if it wasn't that at all...just saying.
Machdiamond said:If this is a UH-60 derivative, the changes are more than skin deep.
Compare the rotor head pitch link attachment of the wreakage (top image) with one from the UH-60 (detail from a photo taken here http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Rotorhead.html#Sikorsky.)
This is definitely different. It IS a Sikorsky helicopter, but it is quite different than the UH-60. Maybe it has one or two additional blades and the rotor hub has been entirely redesigned.
Rhino62 said:Is it likely that the US ordered the wreckage to be covered after the initial photos started to appear and while being hauled away, and did the US demand that remaining piece be retrieved and turned over to US forces?
geeshockbloke said:Colour? BBC are saying pearlescent silver!
IR-suppression topcoat color is hard to describe as you said, variations of grey with metallic shininghtbrst said:Stupid question perhaps - What colour is was it painted ?