Alternative new rifle cartridges

Sferrin said:
You should watch some slomo video and see how much difference a copper jacket doesn't make on armor. It may as well be paint.
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Maybe not but it doesn't splat on everything armored. Hardened tips have always been better penetrators but with soft tips you trade penetration for expansion.
 
MadRat said:
Maybe not but it doesn't splat on everything armored. Hardened tips have always been better penetrators but with soft tips you trade penetration for expansion.
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Expanding bullets are banned under the various conventions.

Even the Sierra Match Kings required a JAG opinion that the open tips are for greater precision not expansion.
 
How much extra penetration can you get from a monolithic copper bullet compared to a similar FMJ?
 
MadRat said:
Maybe not but it doesn't splat on everything armored. Hardened tips have always been better penetrators but with soft tips you trade penetration for expansion.
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Oh, an M193 will go through mild steel. Just not as much as an M855 or M995. And it will splat on armor an M995 would pass through.
 
Was it John Grand who made a cartridge in which the capsule retracts as a separate part?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Yowza that's spicy!

But barrel life with sintered iron(!) projectiles must have been terrible.




Because SOCOM wants to leech off local ammunition stores when they run out of magic bullets.

Literally the only reason anyone is sticking with 5.56 in the US Army. Well, at least for Line Infantry. Otherwise, the Army is (finally) treating the 5.56 as a PDW round in the same sense as the old .30 Carbine. Actual 11-series MOS grunt infantry get the 6.8x51 rifles, everyone else gets a 5.56 rifle. 18-series Special Ops grunts get super-spicy 5.56 so they can use local friendly ammo supply in an emergency, and will likely use 7.62 Minimi or even Knights AMG in 7.62 or 6.5creed.
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Regarding sintered iron bullets: the coach (now retired) for my high school's rifle team (now defunct) wouldn't use sintered iron bullets because of barrel wear, and the barrels for the target rifles were quite expensive. At the time, he was having hell's own time getting lead-free bullets, as lead wasn't allowed in the indoor ranges.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Expanding bullets are banned under the various conventions.

Even the Sierra Match Kings required a JAG opinion that the open tips are for greater precision not expansion.
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This is the beauty of EPR. It fragments (like normal FMJ!) Just much more reliably and to a greater range.
 
Sferrin said:
Doubt it very highly. (I don't doubt you saw something. Just not that.)

26" barrel

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55gr Armscor FMJs on top of I want to say 24gr of Varget. ~3400fps out of a 24" barrel. Zero signs of overpressure in either case or weapon.

Range goofed up on setup for the competition, had a pistol rated dueling tree where it was getting shot by rifles. They were about to DQ my friend for shooting AP on steel. Magnet tested every single round remaining on him, no steel. Pure velocity.

The rifle rated targets are 1/2" AR500, pistol are 3/8"
 
Scott Kenny said:
55gr Armscor FMJs on top of I want to say 24gr of Varget. ~3400fps out of a 24" barrel. Zero signs of overpressure in either case or weapon.

Range goofed up on setup for the competition, had a pistol rated dueling tree where it was getting shot by rifles. They were about to DQ my friend for shooting AP on steel. Magnet tested every single round remaining on him, no steel. Pure velocity.

The rifle rated targets are 1/2" AR500, pistol are 3/8"
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And yet you saw these chronoed steel core rounds barely scratch the surface in the video. You sure the pistol tree was AR500? I'd think if it was they wouldn't care if you shot it with a rifle. I've shot my AR500 targets many times with multiple flavors of M193 and M855. The M193 knocks paint off and the M855 leaves a scratch. Granted, they were out of 16-18" barrels but I've never seen an M193 even come close to shooting a hole in AR500 plate, regardless of barrel length. I wish the guy in the video hadn't forgot to shoot the M193 at the plate but maybe he didn't think it was worth it. Certainly it didn't perform as well against the mild steel.
 
M193 out of an 18" barrel apparently penetrates a 1/4" AR500 plate - does an extra 200fps(?) from jumping to a 24" barrel penetrate an extra 3mm of steel? Presumably the dueling tree targets were also freely moving, not locked in a jig.
 
Sferrin said:
And yet you saw these chronoed steel core rounds barely scratch the surface in the video. You sure the pistol tree was AR500?
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MGM Targets is the tree manufacturer.

They advertize all their targets as AR500, and it is all water jet cut as if it is. It doesn't file easily.
 
The Knights AMG/LAMG is likely the lightest and lightest recoiling belt fed you can get. The 5.56 LAMG is 5.1kg/11lbs. The 7.62/6.5 AMG is 6.3kg/13lbs.

I don't think that the Fightlight MCR is as easy to shoot. Plus, I bet the Knights LAMG is actually cheaper. The belt fed upper alone from Fightlight is 5k!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch
Scott Kenny said:
The Knights AMG/LAMG is likely the lightest and lightest recoiling belt fed you can get. The 5.56 LAMG is 5.1kg/11lbs. The 7.62/6.5 AMG is 6.3kg/13lbs.

I don't think that the Fightlight MCR is as easy to shoot. Plus, I bet the Knights LAMG is actually cheaper. The belt fed upper alone from Fightlight is 5k!
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for recoiless w/o endless mods (ie there r many) MGX cant be beat.
 
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