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A simple scenario - WWII japanese use same quality of oil and aviation petrol on aircraft .

airman

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Scenario : WWII japanese use same quality of oil ad aviation petrol on aircraft .
These means that all japanese aircraft of ww2 could be have more speed than our scenario of 10% faster and less problems to their engines than our scenario .
 
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elmayerle

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How about a even more useful scenario of the IJA and IJN coming to an agreement on hardware well before the war started instead of in 1943. You had a situation where the same basic engine, built for the two customers, used totally different hardware for each customer. For that matter, Kawasaki and Aichi both had licenses from Daimler-Benz, the first for the IJA and the second for the IJN, who couldn't they have at least collaborated to deal with problems together? As 'twas, both forged their own way.
 

Michel Van

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nice idea but will save that Japanese Air-forces ?
even you get 10% more speed
The Main problem were there Zeros were unarmored
as the Americans discoverd a intact Zero and Analyze it they found it main weakness

What let to brutal nasty surprise for Japanese Zero Pilots as they encounter the Hellcat
twice there Engine power, armored cockpit and Fuel tanks and heavy weaponisation
and to make matter worst the Hellcat pilots knew how to defeat a Zero in Dog Fight

here 10% more speed don't matter anymore...
 

EwenS

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Everyone just thinks about the Zero. Undoubtedly both the IJA and the IJN were forced to keep certain early war types (Ki-43 and Zero) in production longer than they should have been. But by 1944 they are producing some very capable aircraft which addressed the problems of earlier generations e.g.

Kawasaki Ki-61 & Ki-100
Nakajima Ki-84

Mitsubishi J2M Raiden
Kawanishi N1K1-J Shiden & N1K2-J Shiden Kai

Trouble was they couldn't produce them in the numbers required nor did they have the pilots with the experience to fly them effectively. Hellcats and Corsairs fighting these types in the summer of 1945 did not have an easy time of it if they encountered an experienced pilot.
 

kaiserd

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The Japanese didn’t lose the air war over the Pacific because their fighters weren’t 5-10 percent faster.
And without going all out to unpick the scenario given the continually precarious and vulnerable nature of Imperial Japan’s oil supplies (and their need to stretch out what they had as much and as long as possible) realistically it’s very hard to see how this scenario would ever come to be.
 

Grey Havoc

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If they had access to such supplies, the war in the Pacific would have likely begun much later. The United States using its position and clout to progressively cut off access to those kind of resources to Japan (for not entirely noble reasons related to Japan's increasing incursions into China) was after all one of the causes of Japan going to war against the Allies in the first place.
 

EwenS

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The Japanese didn’t lose the air war over the Pacific because their fighters weren’t 5-10 percent faster.
And without going all out to unpick the scenario given the continually precarious and vulnerable nature of Imperial Japan’s oil supplies (and their need to stretch out what they had as much and as long as possible) realistically it’s very hard to see how this scenario would ever come to be.

I wouldn't describe Japan's oil position to be "continually precarious" or "vulnerable" throughout the war. They started with significant reserves in 1941 and they did diminish over time. But oil production increased well into 1943 as the various oilfields and refineries were brought back on line after being damaged in early 1942. They even managed to increase their tanker fleet in that period.

It is only from late 1943 when the Allies changed focus to concentrate the submarine fleet on Japanese tankers shipping oil back to Japan together with mining and bombing operations against the DEI refineries run from northern Australia and the various carrier raids in the Indian Ocean from May 1944 that things really went downhill. Part of the reason for moving the fleet to the DEI in early 1944 was to place it nearer the oil supplies so cutting out the need to transport it back to Japan. Some data here.
 

Justo Miranda

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In 1933 Japan occupied the Chinese province of Jehol and initiated a large-scale warfare in 1937 that alarmed the international community. Following the clash with the Soviets in Nomonhan, Japan lost access to oil concessions from Northern Sakhalin.

When France capitulated in June 1940, Japan moved into Northern French Indochina and the U.S. Administration reacted by banning the export of essential defense materials: aviation motors, high-octane aviation fuel, lubricants, iron and steel scrap. The embargo was expanded in July 1941 to all grades of oil and the British and the Dutch followed suit, embargoing exports of copper, tin, bauxite, rubber and petroleum to Japan from their colonies in Southern Asia. The Allies were putting Japan in an untenable position that would force oil-starved Japan to seize the oil fields of the Dutch East Indies.

The 91octane for aircraft was unavailable, they had to work with 87 octane, or even sometimes mixed with a volatile oil extracted from pine tree roots that lowered the fuel to 85 octane. It was so contaminated with impurities that American Jeeps that used this fuel during occupation suffered engine failures.

In 1945 the Ki.115 could use several types of second hand conventional engines but it required 80 octane gasoline which was almost non-existent in Japan due to the naval blockade. On the other hand, the Ne-20 could work with a mixture of wood turpentine and charcoal, although the battered Japanese industry could not manufacture them in high numbers.

The Japanese scientists found the solution to this situation with the mass production of pulsejet engines based on the Argus As 109-014 scale drawings that the I-8 submarine had brought from Germany in 1943. It used Benzol as fuel during the flying tests, although it could also work with low quality oil or heavy kerosene. It was expected that the operational version would burn 1,600 lt of crude pine root oil that the local chemical industry produced as ersatz fuel.
 

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So surely , recreating high-octane aviation fuel and lubricants and medium training for pilots these could not been saved Japan from defeating considering the tattics of Us Navy with the submarines .
 

Grey Havoc

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So surely , recreating high-octane aviation fuel and lubricants and medium training for pilots these could not been saved Japan from defeating considering the tattics of Us Navy with the submarines .
Given the problems the Silent Service encountered early in the war, this is not necessarily a given, especially if the Allies ace in the hole, the ability to in effect read the Japanese High Command's mail had been compromised. Without that, the War in the Pacific would have been far more drawn out at best even given the industrial and resource advantages the United States had.
 

riggerrob

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Their German allies were also hampered by fuel shortages. Some analysts say that Nazi Germany lost WW2 during September 1941 because they failed to capture sufficient Soviet oil production facilities/wells in the Caucasus Mountains.

What was the critical date for Japan?
 

SSgtC

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Their German allies were also hampered by fuel shortages. Some analysts say that Nazi Germany lost WW2 during September 1941 because they failed to capture sufficient Soviet oil production facilities/wells in the Caucasus Mountains.

What was the critical date for Japan?
December 7, 1941
 
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