Norwegian/British Future Mothership Programme - Discussion and News

[Reuben James]

Well argument became about survivability and your thought that OSV was unsuitable. I didn't say it could do the job to the same level, but that it could it very well; especially in a dangerous environment. And if the threat was credible, you wouldn't send any of them without escort anyway, especially the amphibs. The OPV would be the most survivable

Yeah, my thought remains that the OSV isn't suitable for overseas deployments into places like the Gulf, even during 'peacetime'. An OPV is more survivable than both a Standard and a OSV, but the B2 Rivers still aren't super survivable assets. You'd want a Bay or an ATS to lift large amounts of equipment into these more dangerous areas, even with escort presence. They benefit from their sheer size, and from having Phalanx for UAV defence.

I agree with you that the OSVs are the best choice for the dedicated motherships, if that's what the RN wants those motherships to be.

 

[Stellerfella]

Yeah, my thought remains that the OSV isn't suitable for overseas deployments into places like the Gulf, even during 'peacetime

Kind of a circular argument here. The RN has during recent 'peacetime' deployed Sandowns with fibreglass hulls. I don't know who'd be silly enough to attack the RN in peacetime, but it could happen. Again if the threat was real, you wouldn't send it without escort, especially as whoever has mined the gulf probably wouldn't want someone destroying it.

They benefit from their sheer size, and from having Phalanx for UAV defence.

Phalanx isn't the ace up the sleeve you might think. Navies are shifting to RWS or larger calibre guns with advanced ammunition (like airburst).

Anyway, this has become a bit silly now.

 

[Reuben James]

Kind of a circular argument here. The RN has during recent 'peacetime' deployed Sandowns with fibreglass hulls. I don't know who'd be silly enough to attack the RN in peacetime, but it could happen. Again if the threat was real, you wouldn't send it without escort, especially as whoever has mined the gulf probably wouldn't want someone destroying it.

But it didn't, did it. Before things got hot in the Gulf, it pulled those assets out of Bahrain, and its current Gulf MCM presence is a larger, more survivable platform. This is what I'm getting at.

The RN has acknowledged that MCM ops in the Gulf won't begin until the situation is stable, and even then, is unwilling to send its traditional MCMV into the Gulf, even with Dragon as an escort. If it won't send its traditional MCMV, why would it send more vulnerable platforms like OSVs and OPVs instead, that lack a proper self-defence capability?

That's not a circular argument.

Anyway, this has become a bit silly now.

I agree, especially since you seem to be arguing for the sake of an argument. We've basically circled all the way back to the original position in Post 26 - OSVs work for regional, safe areas, but for overseas MCM operations, you need a large platform, which is your amphibious transport ship. Let that be the end of it.

 

[TorpedoJ]

Kind of a circular argument here. The RN has during recent 'peacetime' deployed Sandowns with fibreglass hulls. I don't know who'd be silly enough to attack the RN in peacetime, but it could happen. Again if the threat was real, you wouldn't send it without escort, especially as whoever has mined the gulf probably wouldn't want someone destroying it.

Phalanx isn't the ace up the sleeve you might think. Navies are shifting to RWS or larger calibre guns with advanced ammunition (like airburst).

Anyway, this has become a bit silly now.

The GRP minehunters are famously well built, because the stuff has to be layered by hand when in build and it's really, really hard to repair. In terms of hull survivability they punch above their weight.

I agree with Reuben that a commercial OSV would not be suitable for overseas deployment, and that an OPV sized vessel vessel- that includes Vanguard- wouldn't have the space for a full system. 4 15T USVs is a lot and needs dedicated handling equipment.

Better armament is probably the way forwards, using essentially the front end of an OPV and the back end of an OSV. I'd suggest 2x40mm as a sensible investment if they can be worked together with a flight deck. Commercially based, not using an off the shelf design.