System 9-A-7660 Kinzhal - 9-S-7760 missile (Article 292) / AS-24 KILLJOY

[Forest Green]

You know what I was talking about.It is impossible to jamm incoming Kinzhal. It will be easier to physically intercept (shot down) it then jamm/spoof it.



If someone announced that he jammed 26 Kinzhal missiles from the beginning of this year,than it is in fact, not war propaganda but nothing than lie, big lie.To say ,yes, we jammed /spoofed several of it ,OK ,but 26 ,yeah. Maybe one day ,we will hear that they jammed Oreshnik missiles.

Nothing guided is impossible to jam.

Aha .... US /Ukr. sources :

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05/16/world/russia-ukraine-news

https://kyivindependent.com/cnn-patriot-system-likely-damaged-by-russian-may-16-attack-on-kyiv/



I've already described what is so called quasi-ballistic missile trajectory.

Damaged not destroyed even with dozens of missiles launched that night.

You're trying to argue that a country that's unable to reliable jam rather simple, slow flying, long range drones running on low cost multi-channel receivers is able to jam a ballistic missile that travels several times the speed of sound, has several modes of guidance including INS and is only receiving active guidance in form of small adjustments for the handful of minutes that are it's flight duration following launch.

Something, something "1015% interception rates", something, something "twitter posts with red crosses over selected Google Images". Yeah I wouldn't buy that story even if it was free.

Explain the Russian Shaheds getting lost in Belarus, Turkey, Latvia an other places then.

 

[EmoBirb]

Explain the Russian Shaheds getting lost in Belarus, Turkey, Latvia an other places then.

Explain what's not clear about "reliable". Because the majority doesn't end up in Belarus, Latvia or Turkey, but in Ukrainian power stations and gatherings of targets.

They're not able to reliably disrupt Geran migrations with ECM, it's certainly a choice to believe they regularly do it with Kinzhal. A missile which itself has seen iterations and improvments to it's internals (thus a Kinzhal today is different in some ways from a Kinzhal 4-5 years ago) and which presents a far smaller window of opportunity to engage, be it kinetic or electronic interception.

 

[Forest Green]

Explain what's not clear about "reliable". Because the majority doesn't end up in Belarus, Latvia or Turkey, but in Ukrainian power stations and gatherings of targets.

They're not able to reliably disrupt Geran migrations with ECM, it's certainly a choice to believe they regularly do it with Kinzhal. A missile which itself has seen iterations and improvments to it's internals (thus a Kinzhal today is different in some ways from a Kinzhal 4-5 years ago) and which presents a far smaller window of opportunity to engage, be it kinetic or electronic interception.

A hell of a lot do go off course. That would be jamming.

Gerans fly low, so jamming them may be more difficult in some ways due to horizon. I've seen Kinzhal impacts from afar but what I haven't seen much of is verified satellite images of destroyed targets.

 

[Sferrin]

A hell of a lot do go off course. That would be jamming.

Gerans fly low, so jamming them may be more difficult in some ways due to horizon. I've seen Kinzhal impacts from afar but what I haven't seen much of is verified satellite images of destroyed targets.

Have any photos at all been released, by anybody, supporting the "destroyed Patriot battery" claim? At the time I heard one launcher was damaged but was back in service in a couple days. That's it.

 

[Forest Green]

Have any photos at all been released, by anybody, supporting the "destroyed Patriot battery" claim? At the time I heard one launcher was damaged but was back in service in a couple days. That's it.

Well this is just it. Guy walking down street in Russia is practically knocked off his feet by a blast as an FP-5 hits the side of some building. Next day we are told it landed in a parking lot and was a dud (didn't explode) despite windows being out hundreds of metres away. We need an aerial shot for proof.

With Kinzhal a flash happens a few miles away, something hit the ground, Russia claims Patriot battery hit, a few journos run with it and it it suddenly becomes a fact, no satellite image required.

 

[EmoBirb]

I've seen Kinzhal impacts from afar but what I haven't seen much of is verified satellite images of destroyed targets.

Because Russia doesn't publicize Satellite imagery and the west and Ukraine have no interest and no reason to publish detailed damage assessments for Russia to boast about and on social media to spread.

 

[Forest Green]

Because Russia doesn't publicize Satellite imagery and the west and Ukraine have no interest and no reason to publish detailed damage assessments for Russia to boast about and on social media to spread.

Ah, the catch all excuse. Well it looks like no commercial satellite company ever sees them either.

So boast on social media without the detailed damage assessments instead, that's bound to be more effective.

 

[Ahriman]

And it's claimed that the designers of the datalinks used by the Kinzhal live in Ukraine.

A system, which is derived from indigenous Iskander missile and entered service in 2018 has datalink designers living in Ukraine. Yeah, that is not passing a smell test.
It is actually wild that Wakandan verbal diarrhea along the lines of "hacking INS-equipped missile to make it think it is in Peru, which causes it to snap due to overload" is being discussed here in a non-ironic way.

Guy walking down street in Russia is practically knocked off his feet by a blast as an FP-5 hits the side of some building. ...We need an aerial shot for proof.

What good will that do? Afterall, you've been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that that missile missed, with sattelite images, images from the ground, videos of the building in question and yet you keep repeating the same "hit the side of the building" narrative.

 

[Sferrin]

A system, which is derived from indigenous Iskander missile and entered service in 2018 has datalink designers living in Ukraine. Yeah, that is not passing a smell test.
It is actually wild that Wakandan verbal diarrhea along the lines of "hacking INS-equipped missile to make it think it is in Peru, which causes it to snap due to overload" is being discussed here.

What good will that do? Afterall, you've been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that that missile missed, with sattelite images, images from the ground, videos of the building in question and yet you keep repeating the same "hit the side of the building" narrative.

Links to the satellite images, and images from the ground, of the dead Patriot battery plz.

 

[Ahriman]

Links to the satellite images, and images from the ground, of the dead Patriot battery plz.

I was reffering to a different discussion in this thread, not the alleged hit on Patriot site with Kinzhal. Give it a read, it is quite amusing, when the actual imagery is being dismissed, because it doesn't fit the narrative.


Why are you all discussing it again? Iskander hits on Patriot launchers and radars are quite well documented. No reason to assume Kinzhal can't do the very same, not that it neccessarily did in the particular case. I don't see a reason for heated debate.

 

[Dilandu]

Explain the Russian Shaheds getting lost in Belarus, Turkey, Latvia an other places then.

The rule of big numbers. Out of almost 40.000 Geran drones, launched (by Ukrainean observation) in 2025 alone, some would clearly malfunction, got jammed, or merely catch a programming glitch. It's inevitable; no weapon is 100% reliable, and single-use weapon, specifically designed to be cheap, would by definition have lower reliability standards.

 

[Squirrel]

To end this funny story about the possible jamming of the Kinzhal. It is very fast ,high flying quasi-ballistic missile with the possible max launch distance of about 1000km .Missile itself get max speed during and after acceleration phase of about 10 Mach ( depends on the height and some other parameters of course).So called 'Faraday cage' is phenomena that is inevitable. If and only if ,there is possibility to correct its flight path,it will be during the initial or inertial phase ,that's it. With some very funny antennas of the Ukr ''Lima'' EWS ( which we could see on some photos ), to jam something that fly so fast and so high, it is nothing but really funny. To jamm 26 Kinzhal missiles from the beginning of the 2026 and to jamm 58 out of the 59, it is nothing but lie.

This is especially important after the info that Lima have the max jamm range of 300 km .So how could one Lima EWS jam incoming Kinzhal? Maybe the antenna system were positioned in the vicinity of the frontline ? Yes, for sure, especially when we know that drones are the primary destroying assets of the both sides.

I will repeat again ,during the night of 16 May 2023 and the attack on the PATRIOT battery on the Kiev's Zhuliany airport , about 30 PAC-3 MSE/CRI interceptor-missiles were launched to intercept incoming Kinzhal/s. I hardly believe that was 9M723 Iskander-M missiles because there was no range for them in that period .Only after several months ,Russians got new 9M723-1 /9K720M ''Iskander-M2'' missile with the 1000km range.Even today,we can only find ( on many photos/videos), wreckages of those PAC-3 MSE/CRI missiles but not single one of the Kinzhal missile.

One more very important thing /detail. Judging by the many photos and videos, there is two basic versions of the Kinzhal missile ( besides so called IMM ) .One with the real warhead and another w/o them.Those with the real warhead have that ''orange windows'' on the cone section.Those have nothing to do with the data-link etc .That's for sure.

For the end of this story .Sorry but how many people here know that the first combat Kinzhal ever was launched from the base in the Kaliningrad area (MiG-31K took off from the Chkalovsk air base) ,during the attack on the Delaytin deep underground nuclear werehouse on 18 March 2022 ? It happened in front of the nose of the NATO and the missile itself flew over the Poland's air space ,of course very, very high.

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5659449/aegis-ashore-site-poland-taking-shape

 

[Forest Green]

Explain terminal guidance for Pershing II and ARRW vs Faraday cage.

Lots of missiles were launched that first night, not a single image-verified Patriot destruction.

 

[Squirrel]

Explain terminal guidance for Pershing II and ARRW vs Faraday cage.

For the MRBM Pershing II ,I suppose that missile was slower during the terminal phase in comparison with today's Kinzhal. What we can see on some videos,even during terminal phase ( very steep dive),Kinzhal is so fast that the cone section is enveloped in a layer of plasma.On the other side,Kinzhal as we could see,has also radar antenna what kind, there is no real data. Maybe active as the same type on Pershing II.

Chapter about its radar on the wiki page:

Radar section​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pershing_II


As the very similar ballistic missiles (Pershing II was little slower) ,one as ground-launched other as the air-launched,maybe they share some similarity in the trajectory/flight path especially during the terminal phase.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Pershing_II_missile_trajectory.png

What I was writing about the Kinzhal is that any kind of jamming during the acceleration phase and re-entry phase with that Ukr system called Lima ( 300km max range) is impossible. Another thing,what I could understand, if I'm right ,that ''Lima'' is something similar to the Russian system called ''Perseus-300''

''«Персей-300» — это специализированная распределенная интеллектуальная система, предназначенная для ограничения использования мобильной связи. ''

''Perseus-300 is a specialized distributed intelligent system designed to limit the use of mobile communications.''

https://sls-security.ru/equipment/s...geting-none-goal_0&yclid=15246171180132204543

During the terminal phase and that very steep ,very fast dive ,don't think that there is enough time for any reaction in the jamming domain.It will be easier to physically intercept it after stabile tracking/lock-on is maintain.

Lots of missiles were launched that first night, not a single image-verified Patriot destruction.

Story about the MIM-104 PATRIOT in Ukraine began on 19 April 2023.That day two batteries were positioned on Zhuliany airport for the defence of the city of Kiev.Ukrainians announced that they shot down first Kinzhal during the night of 4 May but it was propaganda.Answer came very soon and the real Kinzhal struck one battery during the night of 16 May.The story about only damaged or intact PATRIOT battery on Kiev's Zhuliany airport is very similar to the story about the ''F-15E crew CSAR mission '' performed recently in Iran. In fact, that wasn't CSAR mission at all.They had the mission to steal Iranian enriched Uranium.

This is very interesting title :

Ukraine Deploys American Patriot Air Defense System to Counter Kh-22 missiles​

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukra...air-defense-system-to-counter-kh-22-missiles/

PATRIOT system was in fact deployed to counter Kh-22 Burya ,not the Kinzhal itself.

Other article from 18 May 2023 :

''Another U.S. official told CNN it was possible the missile hit one of several components of the Patriot battery.
Ukrainian officials stated on Tuesday that the Ukrainian defense forces successfully intercepted all six Kinzhal hypersonic missiles fired by the Russians.''


https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukrainian-patriot-sam-fixed-and-fully-operational/

If they really shot down all six incoming Kinzhals what did struck that PATRIOT battery then? Another propaganda/lie and in contrary to them ,even US officials admitted that something happened there.

 

[Forest Green]

For the MRBM Pershing II ,I suppose that missile was slower during the terminal phase in comparison with today's Kinzhal. What we can see on some videos,even during terminal phase ( very steep dive),Kinzhal is so fast that the cone section is enveloped in a layer of plasma.On the other side,Kinzhal as we could see,has also radar antenna what kind, there is no real data. Maybe active as the same type on Pershing II.

Chapter about its radar on the wiki page:

Radar section​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pershing_II


As the very similar ballistic missiles (Pershing II was little slower) ,one as ground-launched other as the air-launched,maybe they share some similarity in the trajectory/flight path especially during the terminal phase.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Pershing_II_missile_trajectory.png

Given its range (2,400km) and the fact it was a pure ballistic missile, it definitely was not slower.
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/pershing.html

What I was writing about the Kinzhal is that any kind of jamming during the acceleration phase and re-entry phase with that Ukr system called Lima ( 300km max range) is impossible. Another thing,what I could understand, if I'm right ,that ''Lima'' is something similar to the Russian system called ''Perseus-300''

''«Персей-300» — это специализированная распределенная интеллектуальная система, предназначенная для ограничения использования мобильной связи. ''

''Perseus-300 is a specialized distributed intelligent system designed to limit the use of mobile communications.''

https://sls-security.ru/equipment/specialnyj-kompleks-persej-300/?utm_source=yd_context&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Товарная кампания https://sls-security.ru/?yml-feed1_Ручная_РФ!Москва и МО&utm_content=5621734502-17194153781-none-0&utm_term=205621734502----autotargeting-none-goal_0&yclid=15246171180132204543

During the terminal phase and that very steep ,very fast dive ,don't think that there is enough time for any reaction in the jamming domain.It will be easier to physically intercept it after stabile tracking/lock-on is maintain.

You keep using the word 'impossible' like it's a hard fact but it isn't, all comms or guidance systems, save INS, have vulnerabilities.

Story about the MIM-104 PATRIOT in Ukraine began on 19 April 2023.That day two batteries were positioned on Zhuliany airport for the defence of the city of Kiev.Ukrainians announced that they shot down first Kinzhal during the night of 4 May but it was propaganda.Answer came very soon and the real Kinzhal struck one battery during the night of 16 May.The story about only damaged or intact PATRIOT battery on Kiev's Zhuliany airport is very similar to the story about the ''F-15E crew CSAR mission '' performed recently in Iran. In fact, that wasn't CSAR mission at all.They had the mission to steal Iranian enriched Uranium.

We saw the wreckage of several shot down Kinzhals, remember, Russia tried claim they were freefall bombs.

This is very interesting title :

Ukraine Deploys American Patriot Air Defense System to Counter Kh-22 missiles​

https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukra...air-defense-system-to-counter-kh-22-missiles/

PATRIOT system was in fact deployed to counter Kh-22 Burya ,not the Kinzhal itself.

Other article from 18 May 2023 :

''Another U.S. official told CNN it was possible the missile hit one of several components of the Patriot battery.
Ukrainian officials stated on Tuesday that the Ukrainian defense forces successfully intercepted all six Kinzhal hypersonic missiles fired by the Russians.''


https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukrainian-patriot-sam-fixed-and-fully-operational/

If they really shot down all six incoming Kinzhals what did struck that PATRIOT battery then? Another propaganda/lie and in contrary to them ,even US officials admitted that something happened there.

This was damaged, this was destroyed etc. No pictures, no proof. A launcher could be damaged just launching a high volume of missiles. At least one Patriot missile failed during launch.

 

[Squirrel]

Given its range (2,400km) and the fact it was a pure ballistic missile, it definitely was not slower.

Air-launched Kinzhal has the ''first speed'' of about 2.5 Mach .

You keep using the word 'impossible' like it's a hard fact but it isn't, all comms or guidance systems, save INS, have vulnerabilities.

Yes for the much slower drones and UAV/UCAV but not for the so fast ballistic missiles.

We saw the wreckage of several shot down Kinzhals, remember, Russia tried claim they were freefall bombs.

What we saw after the 4 May 2023 ,wasn't Kinzhal at all.

This was damaged, this was destroyed etc. No pictures, no proof. A launcher could be damaged just launching a high volume of missiles. At least one Patriot missile failed during launch.

''Shipments to the United States (Kiev to US):
When Ukrainian Patriot batteries sustain severe combat damage, they cannot always be fully restored by local technicians.

• Repair Operations: Severely damaged components—including vital radars and launcher systems—are airlifted from hubs like Rzeszów, Poland, directly to U.S. sites, such as Harrisburg International Airport in Pennsylvania, for heavy maintenance and deep overhauls.''

PS :

I will try to find the photos/videos of the hardly damaged MIM-104 PATRIOT components after arrival in US that were made after 16 May 2023.

 

[Forest Green]

Air-launched Kinzhal has the ''first speed'' of about 2.5 Mach .

Measured impact speed is M2.5-4 according to Ukraine. But a missile with a 2,400km range will be comfortably over M5 even at impact. There's also going to be an AShM version of ARRW, with a 1,000+nm (1,850+km) range.

Yes for the much slower drones and UAV/UCAV but not for the so fast ballistic missiles.

So it's impossible to jam HIMARS or ATACMS too then? Jamming the guidance is jamming the guidance. You jam the guidance and it's reduced to INS.

What we saw after the 4 May 2023 ,wasn't Kinzhal at all.



''Shipments to the United States (Kiev to US):
When Ukrainian Patriot batteries sustain severe combat damage, they cannot always be fully restored by local technicians.

• Repair Operations: Severely damaged components—including vital radars and launcher systems—are airlifted from hubs like Rzeszów, Poland, directly to U.S. sites, such as Harrisburg International Airport in Pennsylvania, for heavy maintenance and deep overhauls.''

PS :

I will try to find the photos/videos of the hardly damaged MIM-104 PATRIOT components after arrival in US that were made after 16 May 2023.

Try finding sources for quotes also.

I mean, watch this:

"All Russian missiles missed."

See, it's easy to do that. Ultimately it boils down to satellite images or didn't happen, same as when the roles are reversed.

 

[Sferrin]

''Another U.S. official told CNN it was possible the missile hit one of several components of the Patriot battery.

So they didn't actually know but they didn't want to say, "uhhhhh" on TV. That's what you're clinging to?

 

[AndersJ]

Lots of missiles were launched that first night, not a single image-verified Patriot destruction.

It does seem that one Patriot battery was once slightly damaged by falling debris from an intercepted Kinzahl in May 2023, i.e. three years ago. But that's about it, which hardly seems impressive.

 

[Squirrel]

Measured impact speed is M2.5-4 according to Ukraine.

Sorry but they certainly couldn't know the Mach number of the incoming missile. That's for sure.

Jamming the guidance is jamming the guidance. You jam the guidance and it's reduced to INS.

FG, again to jamm the radar guidance during the steep and very fast dive is almost or completely impossible.In that phase, Kinzhal already attacks his target under 90 degrees and to do something , jamming source must be under him.Of course during the inertial (initial) phase/guidance, jamming with that Lima is completely impossible. Read about the Perseus -300 system.

Try finding sources for quotes also.

One of the sources:

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/57780

So they didn't actually know but they didn't want to say, "uhhhhh" on TV. That's what you're clinging to?

US officials certainly did know what was going on ,so during that night 16 May 2023 when several PATRIOT battery components was hit, destroyed and damaged ( five launchers and one radar).

It does seem that one Patriot battery was once slightly damaged by falling debris from an intercepted Kinzahl in May 2023, i.e. three years ago. But that's about it, which hardly seems impressive.

Sorry but from when the PATRIOT SAM's are launched vertically with the 90 degree angle just like S-300/400 SAM's ? You didn't see the video made on the night 16 May 2023 , yes exactly three years ago ,when PATRIOT battery position on Kiev's Zhuliany airport was attacked by Kinzhal?

One detail:

Speed of the Kinzhal during re-entry and pre-terminal/terminal phase is close to 2 km/s. Max speed of the PAC-2/3 MSE/CRI is approximately 1.5km/s. Clouser speed? What kind of debris we talking about at the moment of collision of those two missiles ?

 

[Dilandu]

Given its range (2,400km) and the fact it was a pure ballistic missile, it definitely was not slower.

AFAIK Peshing II solved the problem the simplest way; it did not home during terminal phase. Target search & trajectory corrections were performed while missile was still high enough for plasma not to be a serious problem. After missile's RV got a target fix and performed the required corrections, it simply fell down, using INS to maintain trajectory.

 

[CastleBravo]

Aha .... US /Ukr. sources :

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05/16/world/russia-ukraine-news

https://kyivindependent.com/cnn-patriot-system-likely-damaged-by-russian-may-16-attack-on-kyiv/

And in obviously unrelated news a couple days later...

Russian hypersonic missile scientists are arrested on treason charges

 

[Dilandu]

FG, again to jamm the radar guidance during the steep and very fast dive is almost or completely impossible.In that phase, Kinzhal already attacks his target under 90 degrees and to do something , jamming source must be under him.Of course during the inertial (initial) phase/guidance, jamming with that Lima is completely impossible. Read about the Perseus -300 system.

At the moment of terminal dive, the missile is most likely not homing at all, just following the trajectory calculated from the last position fix on target taken.

 

[AndersJ]

Sorry but from when the PATRIOT SAM's are launched vertically with the 90 degree angle just like S-300/400 SAM's ? You didn't see the video made on the night 16 May 2023 , yes exactly three years ago ,when PATRIOT battery position on Kiev's Zhuliany airport was attacked by Kinzhal?

I've seen a grainy video showing smoke trails lifting off in the distance? Is that the one you are talking about? No info on what we are seeing so could be anything.

One detail:

Speed of the Kinzhal during re-entry and pre-terminal/terminal phase is close to 2 km/s. Max speed of the PAC-2/3 MSE/CRI is approximately 1.5km/s. Clouser speed? What kind of debris we talking about at the moment of collision of those two missiles ?

Hmmm, well the numbers I've seen are more in the 1250 m/s range for the Kinzahls that were intercepted over Kiev. And 1250 m/s is well within what the Patriot missiles can match. And an interceptor doing about the same speed as the attacker is perfectly possible. And if you don't believe me, I suggest watching a football game where a full back "intercepts" a mid fielder, both running at about the same speed.

And the debris? Well that would be a rain of junk from the smashed Kinzahl. Much better to neutralize the warhead at altitude, just as was done over Kiev.

 

[Sferrin]

Sorry but they certainly couldn't know the Mach number of the incoming missile. That's for sure.

You don't know how radar works, do you?

 

[Squirrel]

And in obviously unrelated news a couple days later...

Russian hypersonic missile scientists are arrested on treason charges

NBC ? Aha...

At the moment of terminal dive, the missile is most likely not homing at all, just following the trajectory calculated from the last position fix on target taken.

Yes , thanks and I mentioned that earlier but maybe in the case of attacking fixed target like in Ukraine. What will happen in the case of attacking e.g. aircraft carrier that is moving?

I've seen a grainy video showing smoke trails lifting off in the distance? Is that the one you are talking about? No info on what we are seeing so could be anything.

Take a look on this photo :

https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bmpd/38024980/10181633/10181633_original.jpg

This certainly is not some ''falling debris from an intercepted Kinzahl''.

You don't know how radar works, do you?

One radar can not give you the Mach number of the tracked aircraft/target,whatever. That was my point.

PS:

Versions of the Kinzhal missile ,linked photos:

IMM or the Imitation Mass Model .

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...e-mounted-on-a-Mikoyan-MiG-31K_fig1_349226700

Version w/o the warhead .

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-...802938744?dd_referrer=https://www.google.com/


Real combat version with the warhead ( with those ''orange windows'' one the cone section).

https://blogs.plymouth.ac.uk/dcss/2...ict-russia-would-use-kh-47m2-kinzhal-missile/

 

[Dilandu]

One radar can not give you the Mach number of the tracked aircraft/target,whatever. That was my point.

Erm... radar could measure velocity. The pulse radars do that by measuring target movement between pulses. The Doppler radars do that by calculating Doppler shift of return signal.

 

[AndersJ]

Take a look on this photo :

https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bmpd/38024980/10181633/10181633_original.jpg

This certainly is not some ''falling debris from an intercepted Kinzahl''.

No it isn't. It's an orange explosion in a black void. Could be anything filmed from anywhere.

 

[Squirrel]

radar could measure velocity.

Radar gives you speed data in km/h ( or mph) but not in Mach number friend.That's what I was pointing.

''The Mach number is a dimensionless unit used in fluid dynamics and aviation to measure an object's speed relative to the local speed of sound.''

E.g. radar measured speed: 2500km/h , Mach number 2.35 ( for the given altitude etc) .

No it isn't. It's an orange explosion in a black void. Could be anything filmed from anywhere.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjxX2gqdlkQ

 

[Dilandu]

Radar gives you speed data in km/h ( or mph) but not in Mach number friend.That's what I was pointing.

With all respect, but this is wordplay bordering the demagoguery.

 

[Squirrel]

With all respect, but this is wordplay bordering the demagoguery.

Yes I know that ,sorry but to say ''Measured impact speed is M2.5-4 '' is incorrect.

 

[Firefinder]

One radar can not give you the Mach number of the tracked aircraft/target,whatever. That was my point.

Radar gives you speed data in km/h ( or mph) but not in Mach number friend.That's what I was pointing.

''The Mach number is a dimensionless unit used in fluid dynamics and aviation to measure an object's speed relative to the local speed of sound.''

E.g. radar measured speed: 2500km/h , Mach number 2.35 ( for the given altitude etc) .

ANd that point kills you and shows how UTTERLY wrong you are.

Cause that is UTTERLY Wrong.

A single radar can very much give you the Mach Speed of the Track object. Has been able to do so since the damn 1950s.

Cause its that EASY to program in. Most air Defense system gives out target speeds in Mach Numbers cause saying "INCOMING TARGET GOING MACH 2" is faster and easier identifying then saying Target incoming at 2500kph. And it gets the point across that this is a REAL TARGET and like.

And for these type of things Speed of communications is what you want.

While the recording has ALL the data including what was shown to the operator for post battle training refinement to HOW IN THE F DID YOU SHOT DOWN ANOTHER AIRLINER fixes.

With the military often using the Mach number when possible cause they are more impressive sounding to the public.

Cause at the end of the day Mach Numbers is as much as a shorthand as its a scientific measurement and gets the need information accross for 90 percent of the people who need it.

Hell there multiple actual research docs that support that, from NASA craft reentry tests to the US Army ABM tests showing that an unpower Ballastic Return Vehicle maxes out at around Mach 2 after it hits 50k feet and often impact at subsonic speeds. Cause air resistance is that much of a pain. And thats for ICBMs that go twice as fast then the Kintiz ever hopes of going.

 

[AndersJ]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjxX2gqdlkQ

First of all, the other picture you posted earlier with an orange explosion seems to be from another video and from another position. And again could be anything. And now this video here shows multiple rocket launches going off in multiple directions, consistent with a missile system engaging multiple targets.

 

[NMaude]

from NASA craft reentry tests to the US Army ABM tests showing that an unpower Ballastic Return Vehicle maxes out at around Mach 2 after it hits 50k feet and often impact at subsonic speeds.

For example the terminal velocity of Polaris A1/A2 Mk-1RV/W47 combination was M1.2 (It was barely supersonic).

On another note I find the Russian apologism by a certain poster over the AS-24 Killjoy's performance to be impressive....in a disturbing way.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Sorry but they certainly couldn't know the Mach number of the incoming missile. That's for sure.

That is literally one of the things that Patriot reports to the operator.

 

[Forest Green]

AFAIK Peshing II solved the problem the simplest way; it did not home during terminal phase. Target search & trajectory corrections were performed while missile was still high enough for plasma not to be a serious problem. After missile's RV got a target fix and performed the required corrections, it simply fell down, using INS to maintain trajectory.

I doubt that could achieve the required accuracy given turbulence and how did it manoeuvre in space using fins?

This suggests otherwise:

https://tradocfcoeccafcoepfwprod.bl...977/MAY_JUN_1977/MAY_JUN_1977_PAGES_38_39.pdf


Better source:



And how would ARRW home on a ship using that technique?