US FF(X) Program

[CastleBravo]

Two years from now: "The Navy has settled on a Korean design for it's next frigate class, but there remain concerns that aspects of the design don't conform to USN design standards. Naval Sea Systems Command believes that these concerns can be addressed with minimal changes."

Four years from now: "The Department of the Navy remains adamant that the current work stoppage on the lead ship of the new John Connally class of frigates does not rise to the level of a 'total design review,' and they are confident that work will resume within the next 67-94 weeks."

6 years from now: "The United States Navy's controversial pivot away from blue water operations to a more 'Homeland-focused, close in observation' concept of operations has hit a snag as the Navy is having trouble sourcing adequate numbers of binoculars for sailors to monitor the sea from the shore..."

You forgot the $16B study to determine if foreign binoculars can be modified to suit the Navy's needs.

 

[MrTopaz]

You forgot the $16B study to determine if foreign binoculars can be modified to suit the Navy's needs.

That's 8 years from now.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Anyone with SSNs is going to track the convoy by satellite, so all the sub needs to do is get in range of missiles and shoot at coordinates from other platforms. ASW escorts at best keep the subs from closing to torpedo range. The real torpedo threat will come from UUVs.

If there's no reason to bunch up because any individual merchant target can effectively outrun a sub, there's no reason to convoy up to begin with.

Also, convoying means the merchant targets are more vulnerable to aircraft (and AShBMs/hypersonic).

 

[MihoshiK]

Two years from now: "The Navy has settled on a Korean design for it's next frigate class, but there remain concerns that aspects of the design don't conform to USN design standards. Naval Sea Systems Command believes that these concerns can be addressed with minimal changes."

Four years from now: "The Department of the Navy remains adamant that the current work stoppage on the lead ship of the new John Connally class of frigates does not rise to the level of a 'total design review,' and they are confident that work will resume within the next 67-94 weeks."

6 years from now: "The United States Navy's controversial pivot away from blue water operations to a more 'Homeland-focused, close in observation' concept of operations has hit a snag as the Navy is having trouble sourcing adequate numbers of binoculars for sailors to monitor the sea from the shore..."

The year is 2045.
The third attempt at a Gerald R. Ford replacement has been cancelled due to cost overruns, the Navy has opted instead to order 22 Arleigh Burke-class guided missile helicopter destroyers.

The year is 2065.
The US Navy orders 18 more Arleigh Burke flight 5s as a stopgap after development is delayed on the new frigate.

The year is 2085.
The entire surface fleet…it's all Burkes…the only ship the US can still build.

The year is 2105.
The Secretary of the Navy performs the annual sacrifice of a multi-billion dollar project to appease the Burke gods, as is tradition.

 

[cccgong]

If there's no reason to bunch up because any individual merchant target can effectively outrun a sub, there's no reason to convoy up to begin with.

Also, convoying means the merchant targets are more vulnerable to aircraft (and AShBMs/hypersonic).

Convoying means they are less vunerable to missiles as they can be protected. You also forgot that Chinese subs have sub launch anti ship missiles. If you dispersed your merchants that just becomes a free for all turkey shoot for the Chinese.

Two years from now: "The Navy has settled on a Korean design for it's next frigate class, but there remain concerns that aspects of the design don't conform to USN design standards. Naval Sea Systems Command believes that these concerns can be addressed with minimal changes."

Four years from now: "The Department of the Navy remains adamant that the current work stoppage on the lead ship of the new John Connally class of frigates does not rise to the level of a 'total design review,' and they are confident that work will resume within the next 67-94 weeks."

6 years from now: "The United States Navy's controversial pivot away from blue water operations to a more 'Homeland-focused, close in observation' concept of operations has hit a snag as the Navy is having trouble sourcing adequate numbers of binoculars for sailors to monitor the sea from the shore..."

I’ve been saying this for a while, we should just settle on the Super Mogami as the anti Chinese alliance frigate. Japan and Australia will operate it. Taiwan looks likely and if the US were to join this would simplify logistics and upgrades

 

[DWG]

Large USVs won't need to be recovered. ~200ft length means 200-300t lightship displacement, 300-700t full load. Much of the load will be fuel for long range patrols. So no need for a well deck or LPD-17 mothership.

That's a teeny-tiny thing, the RN is looking at 2500ts for Type 92.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

And here we go again.

https://news.usni.org/2026/04/24/u-s-considering-foreign-designs-shipyards-for-new-navy-frigate-destroyer-work-in-1-85b-study

They can let the Koreans build Incheon class for them. FF(X) already is not much more than a glorified Incheon class that costs 8-fold of what Incheons costed ROKN. Or they could let them build 6 FFG-3s for the same price of a single FF(X) with BMD and fleet defence capable radar on top of proper ASW suite. If they want more endurance they'll have it with enlarged hulls for modest increase of price...

Spoiler

Obviously a joke and even if they let Korean or Japanese Shipyards build their own design for the USN, it would still be more expensive since USN will require them to fit it out with equipment specified by them, instead of the original equipment for ROKN or JMSDF. But I'm pretty certain you'll still get 2~3 FFG-3s or New FFMs fitted with USN specified equipment for the price of one FF(X) built in the US.

 

[Kat Tsun]

I'd suspect the most immediate orders from the USN to foreign shipbuilders will be a replacement for the Kaisers and possibly the Whidbey Islands. Those are the oldest ships in the fleet besides the LCCs, and most in need of immediate replacement, because they're both auxiliaries pressed into a few too many decades of service.

Combatants can be built in America for now.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I'd suspect the most immediate orders from the USN to foreign shipbuilders will be a replacement for the Kaisers and possibly the Whidbey Islands. Those are the oldest ships in the fleet besides the LCCs, and most in need of immediate replacement, because they're both auxiliaries pressed into a few too many decades of service.

Combatants can be built in America for now.

Side note, I would hope that the LCCs and other random command ships get replaced by whatever comes out of the BBG program.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Convoying means they are less vunerable to missiles as they can be protected. You also forgot that Chinese subs have sub launch anti ship missiles. If you dispersed your merchants that just becomes a free for all turkey shoot for the Chinese.

But they only get one merchant target instead of multiples.

 

[johnpjones1775]

But they only get one merchant target instead of multiples.

They get multiple just spread out.
And who cares if they get 1 or 100 targets if they can’t hit them due to being protected?

 

[cccgong]

But they only get one merchant target instead of multiples.

These ASM have ranges of 2-300 miles. And the Chinese have something like 40 ssk and are building them at a rapid rate. With transparent oceans due to satellite targeting, there’s more than enough missiles and subs to sink every single merchant ship they want.

 

[Sferrin]

With transparent oceans due to satellite targeting, .

Wut?