US FF(X) Program

[Jimmo952]

What's more American than using a target list from the Bush era in the late 2020s?

Maybe using tourist maps because the MI ones are 20 years out of date I guess.

What does that have to do with FFX?

 

[joshjosh]

Is this the FF(X) thread? Not sure. Here's something new on FF(X):

The FF(X) schedule according to the FY27 PB: FF(X)-1 ($1.67B) delivers in 2030. FF(X)-2 ($1.94B) delivers in 2033. FF(X)-3 and -4 ($1.83B) deliver in 2036, the additional build time reflecting new shipyards potentially joining the construction effort.

 

[cccgong]

Is this the FF(X) thread? Not sure. Here's something new on FF(X):

The FF(X) schedule according to the FY27 PB: FF(X)-1 ($1.67B) delivers in 2030. FF(X)-2 ($1.94B) delivers in 2033. FF(X)-3 and -4 ($1.83B) deliver in 2036, the additional build time reflecting new shipyards potentially joining the construction effort.

That's amazing. So much worse than I could have expected. I expected low 1B and they are nearly at 2B.

Slower delivery than FFG(X), more expensive, and much less capable. Seems like Trump admin corruption just like BBG(X) costing 17 bil.

 

[SlothmanAllen]

Navy Secretary Phelan leaving post immediately, Pentagon says

“Secretary of the Navy John C. Phelan is departing the administration, effective immediately,” Pentagon spokesperson Sean Parnell said in a social media post today. “On behalf of the Secretary of War and Deputy Secretary of War, we are grateful to Secretary Phelan for his service to the Department and the United States Navy. We wish him well in his future endeavors. Undersecretary Hung Cao will become Acting Secretary of the Navy.”

FF(X) on the chopping block going forward?

 

[Kat Tsun]

That's amazing. So much worse than I could have expected. I expected low 1B and they are nearly at 2B.

Imagine how much FFG(X) would cost if they restart it.

Well, you won't need to imagine. That'll perhaps happen sometime in the next four years. Then we'll get to see how long it'll take the USN to restart LCS-1 or something in 2036 and so on. USN forever denied new combatants simply because it can't stick to a program for more than 48 months? More likely than you'd think.

 

[CastleBravo]

Imagine how much FFG(X) would cost if they restart it.

Well, you won't need to imagine. That'll perhaps happen sometime in the next four years. Then we'll get to see how long it'll take the USN to restart LCS-1 or something in 2036 and so on. USN forever denied new combatants simply because it can't stick to a program for more than 48 months? More likely than you'd think.

No, they won't restart FFG(X). The next program will be based on Coast Guard Sentinel class. Expected cost is $3.5B for the first hull.

 

[Kat Tsun]

No, they won't restart FFG(X). The next program will be based on Coast Guard Sentinel class. Expected cost is $3.5B for the first hull.

They'll end up copying the Iranian Zolfaghar class PTMs with the NSM launchers for $5.8 billion a pop. Put them in a Caribbean Squadron.

 

[johnpjones1775]

The NSCes could be doing the majority of this blockade, and that’s why the FFX is needed.
2-3 burkes just to cover high end air defense, and several FFXs and LCSes would be much more ideal than 11 burkes, 3 amphibs a carrier and an ESB.

We have roughly 1/3 of our deployable ships tied up on a blockade of a relatively small region of ocean.

This proves we don’t have nearly the number of ships needed for a war against China.

 

[cccgong]

Navy Secretary Phelan leaving post immediately, Pentagon says



FF(X) on the chopping block going forward?

https://www.axios.com/2026/04/22/navy-secretary-john-phelan-hung-cao

Seems like he was fired due to taking his own initative. We will likley get someone more spineless that listens to Hegsbeth.

No funds requested going forward for FFG(X) how are they going to finish those two hulls..

 

[DJK]

Funny thing, with all the generals being fired, shouldn't Phelan have been the first on the chopping block?

I didn't think Hegseth was listening...

 

[Jimmo952]

https://www.axios.com/2026/04/22/navy-secretary-john-phelan-hung-cao

Seems like he was fired due to taking his own initative. We will likley get someone more spineless that listens to Hegsbeth.

No funds requested going forward for FFG(X) how are they going to finish those two hulls..

View attachment 810015

I doubt FFGX ever floats. Last estimate I saw was it was only 10-12% complete and still undergoing design/redesign.

Probably a more messed up program that we were even told, which is too bad.

Workers were kept busy and on the payroll to preserve the investments made in the facilities and workforce.

I hope someone is studying how that program got so far off the track.

 

[MadRat]

Not sure why the SoW keeps entering the discussion as a hold up on FFG(X). Hegseth's track record actually is he doesn't suffer fools too well. He doesn't mind admirals or generals standing up to him when it comes to reality. But let's face it, NAVSEA hasn't been operating well. If FFG(X) hulls are not being finished it is for reasons you probably would not accept. This isn't aimed at Jimmo, moreso the general population of our country.

I like the concept but many of the contracts were rumored to be loaded heavily with irrelevant garbage.

 

[Moose]

Hegseth's track record actually is he doesn't suffer fools too well.

I don't care who ya are, that right there's funny.

 

[Kat Tsun]

No funds requested going forward for FFG(X) how are they going to finish those two hulls..

They won't. The ship is rather overweight anyway and likely would be a poor combatant. It's been frozen for several years now, since FMM can't figure out how to make it work without tearing the whole thing down again, and NAVSEA isn't budgeting for more work. It's probably about as bad as USCGC Friedman was before it was canceled.

Maybe in four years they'll ask FMM to build another FFG(X) and get promised hulls in 2042.

 

[cccgong]

They won't. The ship is rather overweight anyway and likely would be a poor combatant. It's been frozen for several years now, since FMM can't figure out how to make it work without tearing the whole thing down again, and NAVSEA isn't budgeting for more work. It's probably about as bad as USCGC Friedman was before it was canceled.

Maybe in four years they'll ask FMM to build another FFG(X) and get promised hulls in 2042.

They got 650/100M of funds in 2025/2026. So it hasn't been frozen for several years. Also funny thing about a ship being overweight you can usually increase the length of the ship slightly to gain back some margin.

The ship would have been a much better combatant than FFX. This isn't the 1920s anymore rough sea state stability is nice to have but not critical due to ships not being gun platforms anymore. It's a similar story with speed, as these do not seem capable of keeping up with CVN's anyways a 1kn speed reduction won't kill the ship.

Regarding damage control, current weapons are so destructive that the Japanese put minimal damage control on the new FFM as they realized a single hit from a heavy ASM would sink the ship. The leaked Chinese datasets showed a single DF-21 would pretty much break the back of a Nimitiz class and sink it. So damage control isn't that important anymore either.

 

[Kat Tsun]

The ship would have been a much better combatant than FFX.

Yeah well, you get the shipbuilding industry you have, not the one you want. Maybe we can ask Japan or Korea to build something while still building FF(X) for secondary theaters.

It's a similar story with speed, as these do not seem capable of keeping up with CVN's anyways a 1kn speed reduction won't kill the ship.

FFG(X) was supposed to be fight in INDOPACCOM as a minimum viable escort-SAG combatant thingy. It needs to keep up with the carriers and can't afford to lose speed. But I think FMM's problems are more immediate than "we don't know how to fix it". Probably something like "paying the wages of our furloughed workers".

 

[cccgong]

FFG(X) was supposed to be fight in INDOPACCOM as a minimum viable escort-SAG combatant thingy. It needs to keep up with the carriers and can't afford to lose speed. But I think FMM's problems are more immediate than "we don't know how to fix it". Probably something like "paying the wages of our furloughed workers".

Speed is only marginally important these days even for CVN escort. It's just important for transits and a 1kn difference will increase your transit times by ~3% and that's assuming you're going full speed the entire time and burning all the escort's fuel. That's not particuarlly viable with the anticpated logistical issues of fighting in the Pacific.

It's marginally important as it's no longer the cold war where you can hide your battle groups by sprinting after last known contact to create a possible region where the ships are. These days there's continual sat coverage by both EO and radar sats around China so the position of your ships will always be known.

 

[DWG]

So if Phelan's gone, does that give the USN a convenient person to blame for FF(X) if they're having buyer's remorse?

 

[CastleBravo]

Is this the FF(X) thread? Not sure. Here's something new on FF(X):

The FF(X) schedule according to the FY27 PB: FF(X)-1 ($1.67B) delivers in 2030. FF(X)-2 ($1.94B) delivers in 2033. FF(X)-3 and -4 ($1.83B) deliver in 2036, the additional build time reflecting new shipyards potentially joining the construction effort.

Where are these numbers from?

 

[H_K]

Where are these numbers from?

Navy Ship Construction budget for FY27, page 305:

https://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/fmb/Documents/27pres/SCN_Book.pdf

 

[johnpjones1775]

I would argue that the extra 5" is useless, but I dunno, maybe he meant that a 5" gun is extra useless?

How would another 5” gun be useless in the age of drones when guns have been swatting drones from the sky at sea for the last 3 or 4 years?

 

[DJK]

How would another 5” gun be useless in the age of drones when guns have been swatting drones from the sky at sea for the last 3 or 4 years?

Because its a bit big and slow? It might be less useless than mk-110, depending on future 57mm projectiles.

 

[Scott Kenny]

A containerized and automated version of Captas-4 to be mounted on a USV, could this be the solution for FF(X) ?

What's next for the Thales sonar systems destined for cancelled U.S. Navy frigates? - Naval News

Thales gave insights into the CAPTAS-4 Variable Depth Sonar (VDS) systems once destined for the now cancelled Constellation-class of frigates

www.navalnews.com

Not for FFX as it sits now.

It'd be very useful for an ASW 2XL-USV that would replace FFX for ASW screen. By my count, the USN would need hundreds of these, 3 for every single combatant hull. And control channels for 6 to 18 on every ship, because the Convoys need a large number of ASW USVs.

Also I’m skeptical the NSC would work as a usv mother ship due to the size of future usv that will work in the ASW role (200 tons or more)

You'd take the RHIB or Helo over to the ASW USV, not recover the ASW USV on the FFX.

In the mid term I don't see much reason for anything up to and including FFGX sized to not be fully automated.

I could see an argument for the FFGs to still be manned because there's no intention for DDGs to escort convoys.

FF(X) on the chopping block going forward?

Doubt it, the USN really needs the hulls. Any hulls. No matter how useless they are in combat.

The ship would have been a much better combatant than FFX. This isn't the 1920s anymore rough sea state stability is nice to have but not critical due to ships not being gun platforms anymore.

No, you need stability for your radars to be able to track things.

 

[cccgong]

Not for FFX as it sits now.

It'd be very useful for an ASW 2XL-USV that would replace FFX for ASW screen. By my count, the USN would need hundreds of these, 3 for every single combatant hull. And control channels for 6 to 18 on every ship, because the Convoys need a large number of ASW USVs.



You'd take the RHIB or Helo over to the ASW USV, not recover the ASW USV on the FFX.




I could see an argument for the FFGs to still be manned because there's no intention for DDGs to escort convoys.




Doubt it, the USN really needs the hulls. Any hulls. No matter how useless they are in combat.




No, you need stability for your radars to be able to track things.

Agreed that if you want to recover ASW USV of the size that are needed you’d need to forgo the helo deck too. But that’s a nonstarter and would take forever to figure out a design for as we’ve only just started to work with USV.

There’s no reason your FFG need to be manned to escort convoys especially as historically you would have around 10 FFG to escort a single convoy. It could easily be 1 DDG controlling 9 FFG.

You don’t need useless ships that cost 70% of a flight 3 AB and taking up yard capacity you need to make useful ships.


You don’t need that much stability. Beamforming is very advanced.

 

[johnpjones1775]

Because its a bit big and slow? It might be less useless than mk-110, depending on future 57mm projectiles.

Drones are slow. Mk110 is significantly better for the role than a 5”