Which russian engines would fit to re-engine F-4 and F-14?

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lancer21

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Just curious what knowledgeable folks think, let's suppose a certain ME power would have wanted to do this, first, would the AL-31F fit on the F-14A? Dimensions suggest it should.

Secondly, same for F-4E, initially i was looking at RD-33/93, seems it should fit too, but so is the AL-21F which is described as a russian J-79 equivalent., and with which the F-4E would have a huge increase in TW ratio.

So is it doable, or there some less obvious technical issues that would prevent this?
 
The MiG-27's engine was about as good as you get with Russian turbojets, but its a downgrade from J79 in everything but sea level thrust.

Al-30's are the only comparable engines to T30's, but again they are downgrades in everything but sea level thrust.
 
paralay said:
RD-33 and AL-31A
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Thanks for that, do you have by any chance in your file comparative drawings for the J-79/TF-30 compared to AL-21F/AL-31F/RD-33? Just curious to see them to scale.

Well, the closest real world examples for this theoretical project are the F-4E receiving the PW-1120 and the F-14 receiving the F-110 (or even the earlier F-401). So probably the gains, performance, range etc. mirror these existing real upgrades as well.
 
Be warned that RD-33/93 is in same powerclass but its much wider.
 
Well, the RD-33 fitted the converted south african Mirage F1 and Cheetah instead of the similar (to J-79) diameter Atar-09C/K, unless there is some technical reason why 2 extra cm of the RD-33 (based on a quick glance at wiki) compared to the PW-1120 won't fit on the F-4.
 
Question do the old soviet and by extension the Chinese use the same mounting standard as us? From the images this seems to be the case to me.
Edit: I assume at least the bolts are the same size due to physics
 
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Looking at the drawing, forget about the RD-33, how about AL-21F for F-4, giving like 40% more power. Climb and acceleration must be phenomenal (supercruise?) even with full AAM loadout.

And in the same vein, why not, AL-41F1 on F-14, for a similar increase in power. From underpowered turkey to absolute rocket, probably could supercruise too with full AAM loadout.
 
lancer21 said:
I found this on X, the most interesting being the engine data table, which apparently shows that AL-31FN would fit perfectly, since F-110 did, no apparent issue with dimensions or even mass flow.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1730663120396304549
View: https://x.com/HEMemarian/status/1730663120396304549


Finally, someone did made a CGI of F-14 with AL-31s.
https://twitter.com/x/status/2024742637891461240
View: https://x.com/UrvogelGallus/status/2024742637891461240

View attachment 804774
Click to expand...
That is interesting... a Tomcat with Flanker engines. Great model!
 
After a further cursory look into this, it seems the F-4E has to stick with RD-33 because the mass flow of AL-21F is way higher than J-79 (RD-33 is similar) thus needing things like wider intakes which is not feasible. So probably the best fits are RD-93s for F-4E and AL-31FN models for F-14A which have the western style low mounted accessory boxes.
 
lancer21 said:
Well, the RD-33 fitted the converted south african Mirage F1 and Cheetah instead of the similar (to J-79) diameter Atar-09C/K, unless there is some technical reason why 2 extra cm of the RD-33 (based on a quick glance at wiki) compared to the PW-1120 won't fit on the F-4.
Click to expand...
SMR-95 was the engine, a modified RD-33. Here is a thread about the modified F.1 and III airframes. Not a straight up drop in replacement by any means.

 

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