Golden Dome for America

Desertfox said:
A handful of well placed nukes can wipe out entire LEO constellations... Also Golden Dome does nothing for non-space delivery systems.
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Actually Golden Dome RFIs have included both exo- and endo- interceptors. The nuke has to reach space first and the interceptors are designed to stop that happening, regardless of the launch vehicle type. There's also no air in space, and hence little in the way of pressure waves

Scott Kenny said:
Yowza! Eye of Sauron it is.
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Yep, it's HMTI, GMTI and AMTI (hypersonic, ground and Air tracking + targeting). The other plus is future requirement fulfillment - when DEW eventually becomes capable of the job (which it will), the targeting infrastructure will already be in place, then you can literally Alice in Borderland everything from enemy jets to annoying foreign leaders.

Realistic Expectations for Golden Dome by 2028​

www.airandspaceforces.com

Realistic Expectations for Golden Dome by 2028 | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Golden Dome concept and capability would free the United States from ever being held hostage to nuclear threats from peer competitors.
www.airandspaceforces.com www.airandspaceforces.com
 
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Blackstar just posted this about Golden Dome over on NSF:

Yes. But remember that this whole thing was invented about eight months ago. There was no strategic plan, no architecture, no statement of requirements. It was just "Here's a giant pile of money, go figure something out." How anybody can generate cost estimates out of that is beyond me.

I have heard that IDIQ contracts in the defense business can be huge problems for the government, subject to waste and mismanagement. I have limited experience with a government IDIQ contract, but on a small scale, very focused.
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Can anyone comment on here further to what he talks about with IDIQ contracts in defense?
 
Flyaway said:
Blackstar just posted this about Golden Dome over on NSF:


Can anyone comment on here further to what he talks about with IDIQ contracts in defense?
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IDIQ stands for Indefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity and typically refers to a U.S. federal government contracting method that provides for an unspecified quantity of supplies or services over a fixed period
 
I wouldn't say the whole thing came up 8 months ago either, the detection systems have been going into orbit well before then based on a larger HMTI, GMTI and AMTI roll-out plan.
 
MDA Picks More Than 1,000 Companies For Golden Dome

The Pentagon is casting a wide net for work under the Golden Dome air and missile defense program, awarding contracts to more than 1,000 companies as part of the effort’s early stages.

The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) announced Dec. 2 the first in a series of awards for the Scalable Homeland Innovative Enterprise Layered Defense (Shield) contract vehicle as part of Golden Dome. The first phase went to 1,014 “qualifying offerors,” an announcement said.

The Shield awards are indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity contracts worth up to $151 billion. MDA selected less than half of the 2,463 offers it received. If all options are exercised, work will continue through December 2035.

MDA has not detailed the type of work the awards will cover, or any of the companies involved. An announcement says it “encompasses a broad range of work areas” allowing for the rapid delivery of capabilities.
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MDA Picks More Than 1,000 Companies For Golden Dome | Aviation Week Network

The Pentagon is casting a wide net for work under the Golden Dome air and missile defense program.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
Flyaway said:
Because basing your defence strategy, as well as spending vast amount amounts of taxpayers money always makes perfect sense when based on some random movie.

arstechnica.com

Asked why we need Golden Dome, the man in charge points to a Hollywood film

If they see how prepared we are, no one starts a nuclear war."
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
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Wargames is a very useful film for instruction. My dad actually used it in his Computer Ethics classes.

"What a strange game. The only way to win is not to play"
 
NMaude said:
What was your assessment of the film?
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Ignoring the existence of an AI...

The scenarios seem to track with actual US nuclear plans. (For example, WARPAC/frmUSSR was horrified to discover that the west held any use of nukes, even small tactical ones, as an instant strategic nuclear exchange in the late 1990s)

My dad used it for ethical computer use. kid was accessing things without knowing or even caring what those things were or did, and that can have really scary impacts.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Ignoring the existence of an AI...
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Yeah, since WOPR appeared to be sentient if not sapient was a plot oversight.

Scott Kenny said:
The scenarios seem to track with actual US nuclear plans. (For example, WARPAC/frmUSSR was horrified to discover that the west held any use of nukes, even small tactical ones, as an instant strategic nuclear exchange in the late 1990s)
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That must've caused some major heartburn when they realised that the Soviet "Escalate to de-escalate" (What a lethal oxymoron) with tactical-nukes would've triggered WWIII. On another note earlier this year in a video I watched about "War Games" revealed that the film-makers recreating what they thought the NORAD command-centre at Cheyenne Mountain based on publicly available information was actually a great deal more sophisticated than the RL command-centre.​

Scott Kenny said:
kid was accessing things without knowing or even caring what those things were or did, and that can have really scary impacts.
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That was one of the big plot points where Mathew Broderick's character ferreting around on ARPANET accidentally set up WOPR to go autonomous (Like Skynet) and almost started WWIII.
 
Forest Green said:

Space Force wants advanced tech for space-based interceptors​

www.defensenews.com

Space Force wants advanced tech for space-based interceptors

The U.S. Space Force is looking for advanced technologies for space-based interceptors that can intercept ballistic missiles during their boost phase.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
The U.S. Space Force is looking for advanced technologies for space-based interceptors that can intercept ballistic missiles during their boost phase inside the atmosphere, according to a Small Business Innovation Research solicitation.
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“The desired outcome is to develop and integrate high-G propulsion systems, advanced seekers, and low-SWaP [size, weight and power] interceptors integrated into space vehicles for … SBI [space-based interceptor] architectures that support fast detection-to-intercept timelines,” stated the SBIR solicitation, which opens Jan. 7 and closes Jan. 28.
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The Space Force envisions boost-phase interceptors that can hit missiles at an altitude of less than 120 kilometers, or about 75 miles or less, above the Earth’s surface. Intercept time should be less than 180 seconds.
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Propulsion for the new interceptor should enable high thrust, plus rapid acceleration to at least 6 kilometers, or nearly 4 miles, per second.
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“Desired characteristics include dual-pulse or throttleable motors, high-grain solid or hybrid propellants, and thrust vector control,” the SBIR specified.

Other features include fast shutdown and reignition of the rocket motors, and improved specific impulse for more efficient thrust.
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The service also wants to increase the probability of a kill by fitting the interceptors with multiple sensors.
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The interceptors should also be small, easy to manufacture at scale and capable of being fired from constellations of orbital launch platforms that would allow continuous coverage over specific terrestrial regions below. Because they will be descending rapidly from space into the atmosphere, they will also need strong thermal protection.

“Successful solutions will also consider survivability under extreme conditions experienced during atmospheric re-entry including the extreme temperatures from aero-thermal heating,” the Space Force noted.
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My personal guess is that the Golden Dome is more likely intended to serve as a platform supporting a broader space warfare system. It could provide stronger electronic warfare capabilities and enable interference with, or direct attacks on, enemy satellites.

The most likely targets would be satellites in medium Earth orbit and above, using systems designed for medium- and high-orbit operations such as co-orbital flight, electronic interference, close-contact operations, and control or towing of opponent satellites. For the large number of satellites in low Earth orbit, co-orbital approaches would be too costly, making direct attacks more practical. Reusable rockets carrying dozens of KKV interceptors could be launched into LEO and release them to attack enemy satellite constellations.

In later stages, both sides (or multiple sides) would likely continue launching interceptor-equipped rockets against each other’s satellites while deploying replacement satellites into higher orbits to offset losses in LEO. Ground-based launch facilities and control centers would also become targets, and by that point nuclear weapons would likely have already been used.

Considering that increased investment in conventional forces can at best delay defeat rather than significantly improve the chances of victory, the US has a strong incentive to pursue nuclear or near-nuclear capabilities. In this context, space weapons are a particularly suitable option.
 

New Task Force-Gold to run homeland missile defense, Army units realigned​

New Task Force-Gold to run homeland missile defense, Army units realigned | InsideDefense.com

The U.S. military has established a new joint task force to oversee the operational side of homeland air and missile defense, a move that signals a major consolidation of authority under the Army's Space and Missile Defense Command as Washington accelerates work on what the Trump administration...
insidedefense.com insidedefense.com
 
In my opinion, this whole project is just an attempt to repeat Reagan's star wars to force the enemy to invest too many resources in an unnecessary pharaonic project.

Senator Joe Biden argued that, "Star Wars represents a fundamental assault on the concepts, alliances, and arms-control agreements that have buttressed American security for several decades, and the president's continued adherence to it constitutes one of the most reckless and irresponsible acts in the history of modern statecraft."[

en.wikipedia.org

Strategic Defense Initiative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

No wall is indestructible, no dome is one hundred percent missile-proof, the Maginot strategy always ends badly.
 
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Justo Miranda said:
In my opinion, this whole project is just an attempt to repeat Reagan's star wars to force the enemy to invest too many resources in an unnecessary pharaonic project.

Senator Joe Biden argued that, "Star Wars represents a fundamental assault on the concepts, alliances, and arms-control agreements that have buttressed American security for several decades, and the president's continued adherence to it constitutes one of the most reckless and irresponsible acts in the history of modern statecraft."[

en.wikipedia.org

Strategic Defense Initiative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

No wall is indestructible, no dome is one hundred percent missile-proof, the Maginot strategy always ends badly.
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Whether it's fool proof or not isn't what matters. What matters is if the system can do what it's supposed to do at a cost lower than for the enemy to neutralize it. If it doesn't, then the enemy just needs to step up their offense and then we will be less safe than we were before.
 
And our wonderful mods just nuked the entire post instead of deleting the part that was off-topic.

I suspect that the Golden Dome will be closer to the pre-Brilliant Pebbles "garages" than Brilliant Pebbles and their lifejackets: a satellite with multiple interceptors and a couple of RFGs to address attacks from the surface.
 
exclaimedleech8 said:
Whether it's fool proof or not isn't what matters. What matters is if the system can do what it's supposed to do at a cost lower than for the enemy to neutralize it. If it doesn't, then the enemy just needs to step up their offense and then we will be less safe than we were before.
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It is Schrödiger's cat, we do not know what is true in this whole matter because it is secret technology that can work, or not work, depending on whether the enemy's secret technology is powerful.

Which is cheaper for American taxpayers, a Maginot Line that makes them more cowardly, or a false threat that creates serious internal problems for the enemy?

I think all this is a cardboard tank.

Reagan, despite Biden's infamous words, brought about the fall of the Soviet, perhaps this is the second chapter of the book.
 

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The problem is China and Russia where already thinking we would develop Golden Dome and proceeded to develop weapons to defeat it. We are building walls when the enemy already developed the cannons to break them.
 
Desertfox said:
The problem is China and Russia where already thinking we would develop Golden Dome and proceeded to develop weapons to defeat it. We are building walls when the enemy already developed the cannons to break them.
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That will only be a problem if the very expensive defenses really exist, otherwise the enemy will be investing in buying the land where the Eiffel Tower is built from a fake real estate agent, he will have serious internal problems and will never recover from ridicule. A masterful intelligence operation only surpassed by the Mossad's feat in Lebanon.
 
They already bought and deployed the weapons. Golden Dome is trying to stop the previous generation of weapons...
 
In my opinion, this whole project is just an attempt to repeat Reagan's star wars to force the enemy to invest too many resources in an unnecessary pharaonic project.
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A lot of the Brilliant Pebbles stuff was dependent on cheap launch; hence a future launch system was part of the cost of SDI; only now in 2026, we have a 100T to LEO fully reusable launcher being developed at effectively zero cost to the USG other than the NASA HLS lunar lander program.
 
RyanC said:
A lot of the Brilliant Pebbles stuff was dependent on cheap launch; hence a future launch system was part of the cost of SDI; only now in 2026, we have a 100T to LEO fully reusable launcher being developed at effectively zero cost to the USG other than the NASA HLS lunar lander program.
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Also there are fewer unknowns now. We pretty much have miniaturized hit-to-kill down to a science and giant satellite constellations are already a thing. I'm wondering how much research being done on the X-37 is directly applicable to Brilliant Pebbles 2.0.
 
But we still haven't solved the absentee ratio problem which would be worsened considerably if Russia and China developed missiles with shorter boost and post boost phases.
 
Sferrin said:
I'm wondering how much research being done on the X-37 is directly applicable to Brilliant Pebbles 2.0.
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The only applicability I could see is the aeroframe, to allow a garage/lifejacket to skip off the atmosphere and change orbits.

Which greatly complicates packing the garages into their rocket. As in, makes it so you cannot use a Starlink satellite bus.



exclaimedleech8 said:
But we still haven't solved the absentee ratio problem which would be worsened considerably if Russia and China developed missiles with shorter boost and post boost phases.
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You do not care about the absentee ratio.

Because the stuff on the other side of the planet will be in a firing position in ~45min at most, therefore protecting against second strikes.
 

Golden Dome is forcing the Pentagon to confront missile defense economics​

spacenews.com

Golden Dome is forcing the Pentagon to confront missile defense economics

Golden Dome is forcing the Pentagon to confront missile defense economics Golden Dome is forcing the Pentagon to confront missile defense economics
spacenews.com spacenews.com
WASHINGTON — Gen. Michael Guetlein, head of the Golden Dome missile defense program, said the success of this effort depends on the ability to field defenses that are both scalable and affordable, including new directed-energy and other non-kinetic technologies aimed at lowering the cost of intercepting missiles.
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But progress in at least one important area has stalled on the Golden Dome program. The Pentagon will need cooperation, if not tangible contributions, from allies to create the best possible version of the missile defense shield. Fundamentally, it comes down to geography. Places like the Canadian Arctic and Greenland are well-positioned to detect incoming missiles coming over the horizon from Russia or China. They might also be useful for hosting next-gen ground-based interceptors, which today are based in Alaska and California.

Guetlein said his interactions with allies have been limited. It’s the consequence of another of the Trump administration’s core policies: tariffs.

“International partners, I have not been allowed to talk to yet because of the trade wars,” Guetlein said. “The administration wants to get all that laying flat before I start having conversations with our allied partners. But everything we are doing is allied by design.”

Without detailed discussions with allies, the Pentagon’s Golden Dome appears to be one-sided.
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arstechnica.com

Trade wars muzzle allied talks on Trump's Golden Dome missile shield

“International partners, I have not been allowed to talk to yet because of the trade wars."
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
 
Every weapons system in history gets tested in battle and is honed over time. Not this. It will almost certainly only be used once and it's inevitable lots of unknown unknowns are going to emerge.
 
exclaimedleech8 said:
Every weapons system in history gets tested in battle and is honed over time. Not this. It will almost certainly only be used once and it's inevitable lots of unknown unknowns are going to emerge.
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What part of the system do you think will not be battle tested, and why?
 

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