Possible Indonesian acquisition of Giuseppe Garibaldi Carrier

Italy has its successor to the Mangusta in the works that would be a good alternative I would think EmoBirb.
 
EmoBirb said:
Certainly unfortunate as there are no alternatives beyond the US and Russia for such helicopters
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Australia's Tiger ARH fleet is being retired and would be perfectly suited for this role. Germany's Tigers are also being retired and might work too.
 
Ozair said:
...I expect they could try. The record of success for Indonesia receiving used military equipment and converting it to another purpose isn't great...
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ComradeVortex said:
The ITS Garibaldi is at Taranto waiting for the definitive handover
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Archibald said:
Nice to see a second career for that ship.
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johnpjones1775 said:
I’d think of it as a training ship rather than an active carrier.
A year or two of familiarization with the ship itself, a year or two learning flight ops, and I would expect they’d be using the first 4 years to define basic requirements for a future carrier.
Next 2-6 years getting comfortable with flight ops, and either buying an old but younger LHD to add a ramp to, or for constructing their own brand new carrier.
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So the purchase has been finalized, eh? Very interesting.

Welcome, Indonesia, to the family of carrier-operating nations.
 
johnpjones1775 said:
I’d think of it as a training ship rather than an active carrier.

A year or two of familiarization with the ship itself, a year or two learning flight ops, and I would expect they’d be using the first 4 years to define basic requirements for a future carrier.
Next 2-6 years getting comfortable with flight ops, and either buying an old but younger LHD to add a ramp to, or for constructing their own brand new carrier.
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Fact is, the ship was laid down 45 years ago, in 1981. Anybody knows about its material shape ? was it hard worked by the italian navy in the Mediterranean and elsewhere ?

Laid down26 March 1981
Launched11 June 1983
Commissioned30 September 1985
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Archibald said:
Fact is, the ship was laid down 45 years ago, in 1981. Anybody knows about its material shape ? was it hard worked by the italian navy in the Mediterranean and elsewhere ?
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Garibaldi still has 15-20 years (!) operational life according to Fincantieri, apparently. That seems very optimistic, but would explain why Indonesia was willing to pay so much for it ($450M).
www.shippingitaly.it

Venduta la portaerei Giuseppe Garibaldi all’Indonesia

La storica nave della Marina Militare italiana sarà trasformata in una piattaforma specializzata per droni e veicoli senza pilota
www.shippingitaly.it www.shippingitaly.it
Fincantieri confirmed that the vessel has an estimated remaining operational life of 15-20 years and that it will undergo a reconversion that will include the integration of as many as 60 Turkish Bayraktar TB3 drones and the modification of its structure to a “two-island” command configuration, optimized for unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) operations.
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By the way, as @johnpjones1775 mentioned, the Garibaldi will be important for getting Indonesia figured out for naval aviation.

But it's main use won't be combat. Well yes, it is configured for combat, but it will be largely employed for humanitarian and SAR missions.
 
Archibald said:
Fact is, the ship was laid down 45 years ago, in 1981. Anybody knows about its material shape ? was it hard worked by the italian navy in the Mediterranean and elsewhere ?
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I don’t know what it’s material state is, but it’s reasonable to believe the Italians treated her well.

Large ships like carriers and amphibs are often pushed well past 40 years.

Nimitz was commissioned in the 70s still in service.

I could see them using it for only 8-10 years, a few years to learn the basics of flight ops and then continuing to operate it until they acquire a suitable replacement either by purchase of another ship, or building their own new either domestically or overseas.
 
I was pushing the A.129 Mangusta archipeppe, but did not realise that it was used by Italy in Somalia back in the 90's.
 
johnpjones1775 said:
I don’t know what it’s material state is, but it’s reasonable to believe the Italians treated her well.

Large ships like carriers and amphibs are often pushed well past 40 years.

Nimitz was commissioned in the 70s still in service.

I could see them using it for only 8-10 years, a few years to learn the basics of flight ops and then continuing to operate it until they acquire a suitable replacement either by purchase of another ship, or building their own new either domestically or overseas.
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Nimitz commissioned in May 1975. But she underwent a major RCOF 1998-2001. In Dec 2025 completed her last planned deployment when she returned to Bremerton. Her next trip will be to Norfolk to decommission for the final time later this year.

Her intended replacement in the fleet, the Ford class CVN-79 John F Kennedy, has begun running its trials.

JFK is expected to commission in 2027 (possibly in March).
 
EwenS said:
Nimitz commissioned in May 1975. But she underwent a major RCOF 1998-2001. In Dec 2025 completed her last planned deployment when she returned to Bremerton. Her next trip will be to Norfolk to decommission for the final time later this year.

Her intended replacement in the fleet, the Ford class CVN-79 John F Kennedy, has begun running its trials.

JFK is expected to commission in 2027 (possibly in March).
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That’s fine, and does nothing to the point I made.

Edit
Per Google GG under went an MLU period that ended in November 2014 so a little over a decade ago.
 
H_K said:
Australia's Tiger ARH fleet is being retired and would be perfectly suited for this role. Germany's Tigers are also being retired and might work too.
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Not suited for naval operations though
 
EmoBirb said:
Not suited for naval operations though
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You're right, not suited at all.

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Thing is just because you park such helos on the deck for an exercise or a short deployment doesn't mean they're suited for naval operations. After all helicopters like the Sea Hawk, Viper or Katran underwent specific modifications to endure the fatigue and environmental factors of maritime operations. It's not much different from how carrier capable fixed wing aircraft have seen modifications to their landing gear, corrosion resistance, armaments and sensor suite in order to be better adapted to their naval operation.
 
Yeah I was thinking the same thing.. I know the Australian army Tigers have operated off the Canberra, but it is not part of their normal operations and unsure if they are fully navalized.

Similarly, I've seen AH-64s operating off the Egyptian ships, but not sure if they are navalized.
 
Tigers have deployed for several months at a time aboard the French Mistral class LHDs. Including intensive combat operations in Libya where they fired over a thousand rockets. They are fully qualified for day & night landings, high sea states / angles of roll, rotor folding, corrosion prevention, weapons handling etc.

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The 450m is for retrofitting most of sensors and communication systems and possibly a replacement of the SAM system.

Don’t know if everything will be carried out.
 
helmutkohl said:
Yeah I was thinking the same thing.. I know the Australian army Tigers have operated off the Canberra, but it is not part of their normal operations and unsure if they are fully navalized.

Similarly, I've seen AH-64s operating off the Egyptian ships, but not sure if they are navalized.
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The British-made Apaches have been, and that's why they cost so much more. US-made ones are not.
 
It's say still only "concerning". So the Italian parliament discuss the possibility and maybe they grant or refuse the request...
 
Wishing Indonesia the best of luck with their "new" 41 year old carrier.

At least Garibaldi doesn't use steam so hopefully it will fare better than the 38 year old Foch, which Brazil bought in 2000 and then kept marginally operational for 4 years (only 200 days at sea and 566 catapult launches and landings) before everything started falling apart!
 
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H_K said:
Wishing Indonesia the best of luck with their "new" 41 year old carrier.

At least Garibaldi doesn't use steam so hopefully it will fare better than the 38 year old Foch, which Brazil bought in 2000 and then kept marginally operational for 4 years (only 200 days at sea and 566 catapult launches and landings) before everything started falling apart!
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If the Italians kept it in good condition, it should be possible to get at least a decade out of it, if not 2.
 
So, The Italian government has forwarded to the Parliament the decree that will allow the transfer of the Garibaldi, at no cost, to Indonesia. In the attached pics the government advise the Parliament this transfer is meant to support some future contracts (6 submarines and 6 aircrafts) for a total value of €1.53 bn ($1.8 bn).

Verbatim:"From an industrial and economic standpoint, the recent sale to Indonesia of two naval units of the PPA class, for a total value of approximately $1.25 billion, has opened a particularly significant channel of industrial cooperation. This could be further strengthened through the transfer of the vessel Garibaldi, with potential economic benefits for the national industrial system, including, by way of example:– the finalisation of additional naval contracts, including the supply of 6 DGK-class submarines (DRASS), with an estimated value of approximately €480 million;– the finalisation of contracts for the supply of M-346 aircraft (approximately €600 million);– the supply of 3 maritime patrol aircraft (approximately €450 million)."
 

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ComradeVortex said:
So, The Italian government has forwarded to the Parliament the decree that will allow the transfer of the Garibaldi, at no cost, to Indonesia. In the attached pics the government advise the Parliament this transfer is meant to support some future contracts (6 submarines and 6 aircrafts) for a total value of €1.53 bn ($1.8 bn).

Verbatim:"From an industrial and economic standpoint, the recent sale to Indonesia of two naval units of the PPA class, for a total value of approximately $1.25 billion, has opened a particularly significant channel of industrial cooperation. This could be further strengthened through the transfer of the vessel Garibaldi, with potential economic benefits for the national industrial system, including, by way of example:– the finalisation of additional naval contracts, including the supply of 6 DGK-class submarines (DRASS), with an estimated value of approximately €480 million;– the finalisation of contracts for the supply of M-346 aircraft (approximately €600 million);– the supply of 3 maritime patrol aircraft (approximately €450 million)."
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Note:

"The vessel would be made available without offensive operational capabilities as its weapons systems are inoperative. Only the essential safety, onboard comfort, and propulsion systems will be maintained, for the sole purpose of enabling transfer navigation"
 

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