Slides from the very early FCS days of the Multi-Role Armament and Ammunition System (MRAAS) cannon system. A high angle, cleft turret with autoloading and ETC propellent shooting cargo round out to 50km! The cannon used 105mm CTA ammunition with Kinect Energy (Sabot), Multi Purpose (HEAT), and Cargo Round as the three options. Also note the turret's RWS was the 25mm OSCW. Not surprisingly MRAAS proved too advanced even for FCS at the time and it was replaced with the more conventional 120mm MCS variant. Read more in the March-April 2002 Field Artillery Journal.

https://studylib.net/doc/9659966/fcs-multi-role-armament-and-ammunition-atd

MRAAS-Wheeled FCS.png

MRAAS.png


Neat side note, Mark Ford, the program director MRAAS is still working from the Army at ARDEC.

Edit: Found the slides calling for MRASS to be restructured into the more conventional 120mm and separating its BLOS mission into FCS NLOS...

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2003/gun/cord.pdf
 

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Utron Inc depiction of Combustion Light Gas Gun (CLGG) armed vehicle.
1644787615213.png
I have a feeling that they forgot about the C-130 size constraints :p
 
Utron Inc depiction of Combustion Light Gas Gun (CLGG) armed vehicle.
1644787615213.png
I have a feeling that they forgot about the C-130 size constraints :p
Not necessarily. There's a scene in an episode of From the Earth to the Moon, Part 5 'Spider' where Tom Kelly (played by Matt Craven) peers at a model of the LM and says 'Well, we've solved the weight problem. Now we just need to find some teeny tiny astronauts.'

(It's just before one of the scenes in this:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erw1mpwK8nY
)
 
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Went on USAHEC, found some old (1998-2000) presentations and reports from the formative period of FCS. Cool, but nothing new or that interesting:

[SLIDE PRESENTATION HANDOUT] FUTURE COMBAT SYSTEMS, DEFENSE ADVANCE RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY TECH 2000
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/262113/20183164MN000466.pdf
Future Combat Systems (FCS) and Future Scout & Cavalry System (FSCS) Briefing
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/285261/20183164MN003727.pdf
Future Combat Systems Solicitation (FINAL) 32 page report
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/259877/20183164MN002173.pdf
Developing an Army Position on FSCS and Its Role in FCS, just describes US/UK cooperation approaches ( 4 approaches ). 10 slides.
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/285270/20183164MN003736.pdf
Sensor Technologies for FCS
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/259841/20183164MN002167.pdf
Senior Armor Leader Update 19 page slide
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/289261/20183164MN001259.pdfhttps://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/289237/20183164MN001245.pdf (Better, Clearer version of some slides, only 8 out of 19)

[REPORT] FUTURE GROUND COMBAT SYSTEMS 26 pages
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/259829/20183164MN002162.pdf
Future Combat Systems 23 slides
https://emu.usahec.org/alma/multimedia/290212/20183164MN002007.pdf
 

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I was absolutely fascinated by the FCS. In a way, it's too bad the program got cancelled, but Strykers can do most of what FCS was supposed to do. I need to find the old computer or a backup, dig out the big what-if design project I did. Part of it was upgunning the FCS with autocannons to the 50x228mm Bushmaster 3, but built with a 4-way ammo feed: Sabot, PABMx2, and HESH.
 

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Slides from the very early FCS days of the Multi-Role Armament and Ammunition System (MRAAS) cannon system. A high angle, cleft turret with autoloading and ETC propellent shooting cargo round out to 50km! The cannon used 105mm CTA ammunition with Kinect Energy (Sabot), Multi Purpose (HEAT), and Cargo Round as the three options. Also note the turret's RWS was the 25mm OSCW. Not surprisingly MRAAS proved too advanced even for FCS at the time and it was replaced with the more conventional 120mm MCS variant. Read more in the March-April 2002 Field Artillery Journal.

https://studylib.net/doc/9659966/fcs-multi-role-armament-and-ammunition-atd

View attachment 674034

View attachment 674035


Neat side note, Mark Ford, the program director MRAAS is still working from the Army at ARDEC.

Edit: Found the slides calling for MRASS to be restructured into the more conventional 120mm and separating its BLOS mission into FCS NLOS...

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2003/gun/cord.pdf
https://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2002/gun/johnsonG.pdf
 
^ Thank you for the correction skylancer!

Stumbled onto some ARDEC slides for the XM325 120mm mortar, the mortar turret for the XM1204 NLOS-M. As stated in previous posts, the XM325 was a non-penetrating 120mm mortar turret with a bustle autoloader containing 46 rounds/mortar bombs. The XM325 was compatible with all current 120mm mortar rounds in Army inventory and had all angle loading capabilities.

What surprised me was that not only was an XM325 demonstrator built and fired with live ammunition in 2004, but the demonstrator turret was mounted on an M113A2 for further trials! I am continuously impressed at how much FCS hardware was built and tested prior to cancellation.

The XM325 was ~5 tons and primarily made from titanium in the never-ending quest for lightness, with further integration potential for the LAV-25 and Stryker. I’m sure the titanium did not make this system cheap... In comparison, the NEMO turreted mortar is ~1.5 tons with ammunition stored separately in the hull with similar all-angle loading and fire rates to the XM325.

https://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2007/gun_missile/GMTuePM2/SmithPresentation.pdfhttps://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2007/gun_missile/GMThurGS/DeVoePresentation.pdf
XM325 on M113.png
 
^ Thank you for the correction skylancer!

Stumbled onto some ARDEC slides for the XM325 120mm mortar, the mortar turret for the XM1204 NLOS-M. As stated in previous posts, the XM325 was a non-penetrating 120mm mortar turret with a bustle autoloader containing 46 rounds/mortar bombs. The XM325 was compatible with all current 120mm mortar rounds in Army inventory and had all angle loading capabilities.

What surprised me was that not only was an XM325 demonstrator built and fired with live ammunition in 2004, but the demonstrator turret was mounted on an M113A2 for further trials! I am continuously impressed at how much FCS hardware was built and tested prior to cancellation.
Say what?!? I had no clue they'd built the NLOS-M turret!



The XM325 was ~5 tons and primarily made from titanium in the never-ending quest for lightness, with further integration potential for the LAV-25 and Stryker. I’m sure the titanium did not make this system cheap... In comparison, the NEMO turreted mortar is ~1.5 tons with ammunition stored separately in the hull with similar all-angle loading and fire rates to the XM325.

https://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2007/gun_missile/GMTuePM2/SmithPresentation.pdfhttps://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2007/gun_missile/GMThurGS/DeVoePresentation.pdf
View attachment 797227
A 5-ton turret with all ammunition inside is probably comparable to a 1.5-ton no-ammunition turret in terms of protection.
 
Say what?!? I had no clue they'd built the NLOS-M turret!
Caught me off guard! After years of staring at NLOS-M renderings.

A 5-ton turret with all ammunition inside is probably comparable to a 1.5-ton no-ammunition turret in terms of protection.
Yep - it’s an Apples and Oranges situation. I think a NEMO style turret still wins out thanks to the much lower profile. Though what’s odd is that the XM1202 MCV did not utilize a bustle autoloader. Unsure about the NLOS-C as well.
 
FSCS became the FCS when the U.S. decided to go with United Defense/Boeing instead of Alvis-Vickers/General Dynamics as the prime for MGV. The UK stuck to their guns and renamed the FSCS/TRACER to something more familiar to recent news watchers: FRES-SV. This became Scout-SV, and eventually, the GD Ajax. FRES-UV is the Vickers Defense Boxer and seems, after two pull outs in 2003 and 2007, finally poised to be adopted by its designers.

A couple years later, BAE bought United Defense, and brought Vickers and GD with them too. They're not technically related but it's not like the people who worked on SIKA's Tracer in 2001 were left out in the cold. SIKA itself was a conglomerate composed of Lockheed and BAE with GD/Vickers as subcons. Three of these worked on MGV and Lockheed was the secondary prime for the XM1219 ARV and MULE UGV.

The result would have been exactly the same: four to six prototype vehicles abandoned in a lot, except it would have been the Ajax instead of the MGV NLOS-C, and maybe the vibration issues would have stopped production early instead of the weird concurrency thing the UK did. In any case, it was a doomed program because the objectives were silly. If it had been demanded to fit two, three, or four in a C-17 instead of one in a C-130, it would have been fine. Alternatively, the baseline could have been a C-390 or an An-70 or an A-400M.

Regardless the telecommunications and computer technology wasn't quite mature enough in the 1990s to do what the U.S. Army wanted, which was a combination of Starlink and Android today, and FCS doesn't make much sense in the modern era given armored vehicles' unique vulnerabilities to certain modern weapons which were at the time unforeseen. Given that without their fancy high bandwidth SATCOMs and extensive intercommunications, they were little more than glorified CV90 Mk IIIs, you'd be much better off just giving all that stuff to a Bradley with a small turbine or new diesel engine instead.

Ground Combat Vehicle would have been a much better platform given its extensive passive protection measures honestly.
 
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Regardless the telecommunications and computer technology wasn't quite mature enough in the 1990s to do what the U.S. Army wanted, which was a combination of Starlink and Android today, and FCS doesn't make much sense in the modern era given armored vehicles' unique vulnerabilities to certain modern weapons which were at the time unforeseen. Given that without their fancy high bandwidth SATCOMs and extensive intercommunications, they were little more than glorified CV90 Mk IIIs, you'd be much better off just giving all that stuff to a Bradley with a small turbine or new diesel engine instead.
And funny enough that's more or less what we're doing.


Ground Combat Vehicle would have been a much better platform given its extensive passive protection measures honestly.
You mean the IFVs that outweighed an Abrams?
 
And funny enough that's more or less what we're doing.

Unfortunately. It was the plan in the mid-1990's except the AMPV and AMEV back then was better.

You mean the IFVs that outweighed an Abrams?

It was basically the same once you account for all the force protection kit an M1A2SEPv3 wears. Both sit north of 80 tons.
 
Yet another casualty of the Peace Dividend(tm)

Not really. The Peace Dividend ended in 1993 when Bush was voted out. After that, it was the post-Desert Storm recession and the GWOT that killed programs. The recession is what killed the Bradley modernization as the defense budget got cut to keep U.S. unemployment below 10% AIUI.

And both of which are about 30 tons too heavy.

For what? 70-80 tons is reasonable for modern transportation infrastructure.

If you want a lighter vehicle you would just use a pickup truck.
 
The recession is what killed the Bradley modernization as the defense budget got cut to keep U.S. unemployment below 10% AIUI.
How does cutting projects like modernizations do anything but increase unemployment?



For what? 70-80 tons is reasonable for modern transportation infrastructure.
Uhm. Not really.

Not in any city that hasn't updated their sewers since the 1900s.
 
How does cutting projects like modernizations do anything but increase unemployment?

Yeah, it was the hardest hit, besides airlines. The employment recovery was hard because the 90s were rough for everyone. When there is war in the Middle East, you get a recession as a gift, as something similar happened in 2005-2007 a decade later.

Uhm. Not really.

This must explain why the U.S. has immense difficulties using the M1A1 outside of special areas.

Well, except it doesn't. A vehicle that weighs as much as an M1 will have the same movement restrictions as an M1. This is fine, because the GCV was never not going to operate away from M1s, because it's an infantry fighting vehicle meant to accompany the M1.

If your IFV is 80 tons and your MBT is 80 tons there is no problem.

If your IFV is 20 tons and your MBT is 20 tons there is no problem.

If your IFV is 20 tons and your MBT is 80 tons there are problems.

The mismatch is coming from two vehicles with different transportation requirements, which GCV didn't have, and considering that M1A1 will continue to be the American MBT for at least the next 30 years well it seems like it would be a nice investment. A vehicle with higher protection level than "light cannons" would be great for stopping small caliber shaped charges from FPV drones when your APS or microwave radar fail.
 
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