US FF(X) Program - DISCUSSION

It's not clear, to me at least, whether the US also expected to build the design in other yards.

So they could and maybe that should be the backstop option but it doesn't appear to be an option any longer per this Administration and SecNav.
I think I read somewhere that they were expecting Hanwha/ Philly to start building the NSC FFG too and possibly borrowing and building upon the NSC variant with Korean expertise.
 
There's no hint Constellations will be ready anytime soon. Instead, it seems likely they'll come off the shipyard later than a Legend-class Frigate. Nor is there any sign that the ship will be cheap enough to be worthwhile or anything other than another NAVSEA dead end. I've seen rumors that they're already overweight and without any growth margin, and the design still isn't complete.

This is a desperate move for a desperate situation. The Navy has completely squandered 25 years burning money and credibility. Naval shipbuilding has never been in a worse state, Naval architecture in this country is a scandal. The FF(X) is the consequence of the DDG-1000, the LCS, and the Constellation failures.

The last time NAVSEA designed a new surface ship, it was the LCS. The last time NAVSEA modified an existing ship, it was the Constellation. For everyone saying "just design something new to actually be useful" - there's no sign anyone in the US can design a warship this side of 2030. The Navy is functionally starting its surface ship design capability from scratch.

So, why are they building such a limited ship? Because time is out and the US cannot do anything better. It isn't a very complicated answer, just an awful one.
 
I think I read somewhere that they were expecting Hanwha/ Philly to start building the NSC FFG too and possibly borrowing and building upon the NSC variant with Korean expertise.
My reference was to the Constellation, not the NSC which will definitely be built in yards other than HII.
 
Frigates are fourth rate, not third rate.

First-rate is your carrier force. Second rate is your cruisers. Third rate is your Destroyers. Corvettes would be fifth rate.
 
Except the design work still isn't finished and the absolute earliest expected delivery date is April 29 for the first vessel. It's not clear, to me at least, whether the US also expected to build the design in other yards.

So they could and maybe that should be the backstop option but it doesn't appear to be an option any longer per this Administration and SecNav.

It makes no sense to build two and then pull the plug. I consider it possible Congress attempts to override the decision once Johnson loses his gavel.
 
It makes no sense to build two and then pull the plug.
Agree 100% but those two vessels may never even enter active USN service but be sold off the slip.

I consider it possible Congress attempts to override the decision once Johnson loses his gavel.
They could but so far have shown little backbone. Yes midterm results may change that but the evidence to date isn't in their favour.
 
It makes no sense to build two and then pull the plug. I consider it possible Congress attempts to override the decision once Johnson loses his gavel.
Agreed - all of these programs (with exception of the NSC FFG) and proposed changes need to survive the next admin change before they actually mean anything. I'd be very surprised if they can even finish the two constellation ships before the next election cycles.
 
There's no hint Constellations will be ready anytime soon. Instead, it seems likely they'll come off the shipyard later than a Legend-class Frigate. Nor is there any sign that the ship will be cheap enough to be worthwhile or anything other than another NAVSEA dead end. I've seen rumors that they're already overweight and without any growth margin, and the design still isn't complete.

This is a desperate move for a desperate situation. The Navy has completely squandered 25 years burning money and credibility. Naval shipbuilding has never been in a worse state, Naval architecture in this country is a scandal. The FF(X) is the consequence of the DDG-1000, the LCS, and the Constellation failures.

The last time NAVSEA designed a new surface ship, it was the LCS. The last time NAVSEA modified an existing ship, it was the Constellation. For everyone saying "just design something new to actually be useful" - there's no sign anyone in the US can design a warship this side of 2030. The Navy is functionally starting its surface ship design capability from scratch.

So, why are they building such a limited ship? Because time is out and the US cannot do anything better. It isn't a very complicated answer, just an awful one.

Building ships with no capability is not a solution. If it was, the U.S. could simply keep building LCS, or the KSA version there of.
 
Building ships with no capability is not a solution. If it was, the U.S. could simply keep building LCS, or the KSA version there of.

The only way this makes sense is if these FFXs are upgraded over time.

Even in their initial forum, they will be useful in scenarios like we see now in some theaters, enforcing blockades and running down smugglers.

Low operating costs, excellent endurance and seakeeping, give them better blue potential than the LCS wanne-be speedboat.

I am certainly not making the case they are ideal warships.

Hopefully though, we can get these into series production across multiple yards fairly rapidly while also improving their capabilities.

I admit I'm an optimist.
 
The only way this makes sense is if these FFXs are upgraded over time.

Even in their initial forum, they will be useful in scenarios like we see now in some theaters, enforcing blockades and running down smugglers.

Low operating costs, excellent endurance and seakeeping, give them better blue potential than the LCS wanne-be speedboat.

I am certainly not making the case they are ideal warships.

Hopefully though, we can get these into series production across multiple yards fairly rapidly while also improving their capabilities.

I admit I'm an optimist.
As has been said many times these boats will not be significantly lower cost to run than ffgx. The will also cost 1.05 billion vs ffgx at 1.2 billion.

They also won’t be upgradable with the things that matter, ASW capability, AESA radar panels, more VLS cells.

If you want more coast guard cutters for sure enforcement buy them for the coast guard. The envisioned wartime roles don’t exist, especially as the Chinese are adding 60 vls tubes on merchant ships that will likely be false flagged.

The LCS MMSC version is about 60% of the FFX with much more capability and is literally being built now. The FFX is purely a political play, as if they wanted capability the would have just bought some MMSC.
 
As has been said many times these boats will not be significantly lower cost to run than ffgx. The will also cost 1.05 billion vs ffgx at 1.2 billion.

They also won’t be upgradable with the things that matter, ASW capability, AESA radar panels, more VLS cells.

If you want more coast guard cutters for sure enforcement buy them for the coast guard. The envisioned wartime roles don’t exist, especially as the Chinese are adding 60 vls tubes on merchant ships that will likely be false flagged.

The LCS MMSC version is about 60% of the FFX with much more capability and is literally being built now. The FFX is purely a political play, as if they wanted capability the would have just bought some MMSC.

If only FFGX existed. Lets see if it ever comes to pass and isn't 1000 tons overweight and the cost of a Burke by the time it's delivered.

I don't buy the political play. Its not like most voters know or care anything about this.

I know some believe its all politics or conspiracy.

My take is this is more a desperation move...like maybe we can actually build these things before 2032.
 
The purpose of the FF(X) Flight I is to be an LCS that can actually remain at sea for a reasonable period of time. There is no way the Navy is going to try CODAG and waterjets again on a ship this big, but it's not a huge deal breaker for the Saudis because their ships don't get underway. Hopefully Philly can start building 4923-style Flight IIs soon, although I would also like to see them build a few T-AHs on their training ship hull. The main purpose of the early ships is probably to get the supply chain and long-lead items moving to make it easier for new yards to jump in. As far as upgrades, the Anzac-class frigates are smaller than a Legend-class and got entire CEAFAR masts, so I wouldn't put it entirely out if the realm of possibility.
 
If only FFGX existed. Lets see if it ever comes to pass and isn't 1000 tons overweight and the cost of a Burke by the time it's delivered.

I don't buy the political play. Its not like most voters know or care anything about this.

I know some believe its all politics or conspiracy.

My take is this is more a desperation move...like maybe we can actually build these things before 2032.
There were two estimates for the ffgx cost, one by the CBO another by the navy. The both have been trending down and seemed to have converged around 1.2 billion. So that’s the current best estimate.

Also 2 ffgx will still be built. So the design is going to be worked out no matter what. The also have a multi year head start on working out the design modifications over the ffx.

The NSC line has been dead for a couple years and the partly finished ship was scrapped. So there’s going to be lead time there on top of any design changes the navy made. Remember the fremm was level 2 survivability and the navy wanted level 3 which was a large contribution to the design issues. The nsc is level 1, so if survivability requirements are increased it will be just as if not worse design wise than ffgx.

I doubt these will hit the water more than 1 year before the ffgx if not later

It’s a political play not for the voters, but for corporations and donors all corruption.
 
There were two estimates for the ffgx cost, one by the CBO another by the navy. The both have been trending down and seemed to have converged around 1.2 billion. So that’s the current best estimate.

Also 2 ffgx will still be built. So the design is going to be worked out no matter what. The also have a multi year head start on working out the design modifications over the ffx.

The NSC line has been dead for a couple years and the partly finished ship was scrapped. So there’s going to be lead time there on top of any design changes the navy made. Remember the fremm was level 2 survivability and the navy wanted level 3 which was a large contribution to the design issues. The nsc is level 1, so if survivability requirements are increased it will be just as if not worse design wise than ffgx.

I doubt these will hit the water more than 1 year before the ffgx if not later

It’s a political play not for the voters, but for corporations and donors all corruption.

Well...let's see how the FFGX thing works out. There is still redesign work to be done and a lot of construction.

We are a long way from the finish line with those things, and that's if the schedule doesnt slip further and costs don't increase (which they probably will).

Those dang donors of corruption. I hear they were behind the Kennedy assassination and the fake moon landings.

I will admit I am not a conspiracy theorists.

Human incompetence explains a lot more than elaborate conspiracies.

Lastly, I am assuming the decision makers in this case are working with better/more current data than I have access to.

These are big, tough decisions being made. History is rife with Defense Secretaries, Admirals, Generals, ... not getting it right in retrospective.

Most, I trust, are decent, intelligent people faced with very difficult decisions.
 
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NSC is not even fourth rate - too noisy for ASW, and its Mk.110, SeaRAM, & MH-60 form an incomplete package to complete all but very niche missions. It is ok if the fourth rate warship performs but a single task well, but that task must fill a gap the first three rates leave in defeating a peer enemy. ASW - a volume-of-water business that demands lots more tails & dipping than the USN currently envisions, is the biggest fillable gap due to the unaffordable cost building only multi-mission warships (CG, DDG, & FFG) to carry out all ASW missions.

FF(X) wouldn’t be a bad solution if the focus was on closing the ASW gap. The changes for ASW would probably be fairly minimal - rafting the diesels, fitting Captas 4 VDS sonar, adding a torpedo magazine for helicopters and fixed torp launchers.

You could even turn NSC into a pretty decent open ocean escort with a radar upgrade (rotating AESA like TRS4D or Sea Giraffe 4A), 12-32x ESSM in a VLS behind the gun, and RAM on top of the hangar. The result would be pretty much like the NSC patrol frigate proposals from 10 years ago.

But that would require a completely different direction from the ASuW oriented “combatant” that this administration is pursuing, which fills a niche that doesn’t need to be filled. (Or just add NSM to the stern deck of the USCG’s 10 NSCs and call it a day).
 
FF(X) wouldn’t be a bad solution if the focus was on closing the ASW gap. The changes for ASW would probably be fairly minimal - rafting the diesels, fitting Captas 4 VDS sonar, adding a torpedo magazine for helicopters and fixed launchers.

You could even turn NSC into a pretty decent open ocean escort with a radar upgrade (rotating AESA like TRS4D or Sea Giraffe 4A), 12-32x ESSM in a VLS behind the gun and RAM on top of the hangar. The result would be pretty much like the NSC patrol frigate proposals from 10 years ago. But that would require a completely different direction from the ASuW oriented “combatant” that this administration is pursuing.

Walk before you run. Prove you can actually build this ship on time and budget. Give the demand signal to get the supply chain going.

In the mean time, work on designing the next block of more capable ships.

That's seems to be the plan and the one that makes sense.
 
If only FFGX existed. Lets see if it ever comes to pass and isn't 1000 tons overweight and the cost of a Burke by the time it's delivered.

I don't buy the political play. Its not like most voters know or care anything about this.

I know some believe its all politics or conspiracy.

My take is this is more a desperation move...like maybe we can actually build these things before 2032.

Two FFGX are being built regardless of cost or time. It is beyond reason that simply building more is anything more than a matter of money, and one thing FFGX provides is numbers of sufficiently capable ships at yards not already producing Burke. FFX is an LCS remake.
 
These are big, tough decisions being made. History is rife with Defense Secretaries, Admirals, Generals, ... not getting it right in retrospective.

Most, I trust, are decent, intelligent people faced with very difficult decisions.

The current US administration does not believe in basic facts or science. When the president did not like the job numbers, he simply fired the person who produced job numbers. Vaccines that have be used for almost a century are being called into question. Cabinet meetings are exercises in group felacio on a North Korean level.

You ARE smarter than the people making these decisions.
 
I rather like Legend-class FF(X} as a solution. They aren't gold-plated mini-Ticos. They are true fourth-rate, affordable, and built for endurance ships to exert a presence. Not every ship has to be a battleship. The USN can now focus on separate hulls for the first through third rate ships.
The only aspect in which they are superior to FFG(X) [including many of the competitors for that programme] is that if one gets sunk there's going to be less people dying.
 
Two FFGX are being built regardless of cost or time. It is beyond reason that simply building more is anything more than a matter of money, and one thing FFGX provides is numbers of sufficiently capable ships at yards not already producing Burke. FFX is an LCS remake.

It only matters if the ships work and cost less than a Burke by the time they are delivered.

Right now, the are purported to be significantly overweight and slower than required to meet their mission requirements.

Now we can build them like that or attempt to redesign them to address those issues.

Ideas floated include going to an alloy superstructure or reducing weapons load.

No...they are not close to being delivered and cost estimates are as likely to be as accurate as my Grandmother's Derby predictions.

I truly hope the Connies are a raving success but that's by no means a sure thing.
 
The purpose of the FF(X) Flight I is to be an LCS that can actually remain at sea for a reasonable period of time. There is no way the Navy is going to try CODAG and waterjets again on a ship this big, but it's not a huge deal breaker for the Saudis because their ships don't get underway. Hopefully Philly can start building 4923-style Flight IIs soon, although I would also like to see them build a few T-AHs on their training ship hull. The main purpose of the early ships is probably to get the supply chain and long-lead items moving to make it easier for new yards to jump in. As far as upgrades, the Anzac-class frigates are smaller than a Legend-class and got entire CEAFAR masts, so I wouldn't put it entirely out if the realm of possibility.

The closest thing to FF 4923 on the Legend hull is the the pseudo-PF 4921 variant for the Saudis. It was offered with options for a hull sonar, towed-array sonar, and CEAFAR; Mk 56 VLS for ESSM; Harpoon; and a rapid-fire version of the 76mm gun. Seems like torpedoes, cranes, and re-arranged deck spaces. Let's not forget USN and USCG build to the same survivability standards for this hull size. Foreign designs did not meet them. It's a bit easier to upgrade a US coast guard ship design than it is to completely redesign a foreign frigate design to USN survivability standards.
 
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It only matters if the ships work and cost less than a Burke by the time they are delivered.

Right now, the are purported to be significantly overweight and slower than required to meet their mission requirements.

Now we can build them like that or attempt to redesign them to address those issues.

Ideas floated include going to an alloy superstructure or reducing weapons load.

No...they are not close to being delivered and cost estimates are as likely to be as accurate as my Grandmother's Derby predictions.

I truly hope the Connies are a raving success but that's by no means a sure thing.
No. Alloy superstructures are terrible. They are flammable, easier to damage, less protective, and cause galvanic corrosion at the contact points between steel hull and aluminum superstructure.

You can only reduce weapons load so far. Bare minimum for anything resembling competency is 16 cells Mk41 (6x ASROC and 40x ESSM), 57mm, RAM/SeaRAM, plus the anti-UxV gear. And that leaves the ship effectively unable to load SM2s for convoy defense due to lack of magazine depth. If your convoy defense scenarios require SM2s, you need at least 32x Mk41 if not 64x.
32x Mk41 would allow for 20x SM2s, 24x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​
48x Mk41 would allow for 32x SM2s, 40x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​
64x Mk41 would allow for 48x SM2s, 40x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​



=========================

On a different thought:

I'm honestly starting to think that the FF(X)s, the bottom end ASW-only ships, should be a large USV instead of manned. This would save a very large amount of hull volume for racks and food storage, as the USV would only have crew onboard for a week at a time at most. We're still probably looking at a 3-5kton ship, however. Towing a pair of towed arrays is not for a tiny ship.
 
No. Alloy superstructures are terrible. They are flammable, easier to damage, less protective, and cause galvanic corrosion at the contact points between steel hull and aluminum superstructure.

You can only reduce weapons load so far. Bare minimum for anything resembling competency is 16 cells Mk41 (6x ASROC and 40x ESSM), 57mm, RAM/SeaRAM, plus the anti-UxV gear. And that leaves the ship effectively unable to load SM2s for convoy defense due to lack of magazine depth. If your convoy defense scenarios require SM2s, you need at least 32x Mk41 if not 64x.
32x Mk41 would allow for 20x SM2s, 24x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​
48x Mk41 would allow for 32x SM2s, 40x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​
64x Mk41 would allow for 48x SM2s, 40x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​



=========================

On a different thought:

I'm honestly starting to think that the FF(X)s, the bottom end ASW-only ships, should be a large USV instead of manned. This would save a very large amount of hull volume for racks and food storage, as the USV would only have crew onboard for a week at a time at most. We're still probably looking at a 3-5kton ship, however. Towing a pair of towed arrays is not for a tiny ship.

That fact they are considering an alloy superstructure this late in the game is an indicator the design is in trouble.
 
No. Alloy superstructures are terrible. They are flammable, easier to damage, less protective, and cause galvanic corrosion at the contact points between steel hull and aluminum superstructure.

You can only reduce weapons load so far. Bare minimum for anything resembling competency is 16 cells Mk41 (6x ASROC and 40x ESSM), 57mm, RAM/SeaRAM, plus the anti-UxV gear. And that leaves the ship effectively unable to load SM2s for convoy defense due to lack of magazine depth. If your convoy defense scenarios require SM2s, you need at least 32x Mk41 if not 64x.
32x Mk41 would allow for 20x SM2s, 24x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​
48x Mk41 would allow for 32x SM2s, 40x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​
64x Mk41 would allow for 48x SM2s, 40x ESSMs, and 6x ASROC.​



=========================

On a different thought:

I'm honestly starting to think that the FF(X)s, the bottom end ASW-only ships, should be a large USV instead of manned. This would save a very large amount of hull volume for racks and food storage, as the USV would only have crew onboard for a week at a time at most. We're still probably looking at a 3-5kton ship, however. Towing a pair of towed arrays is not for a tiny ship.
There's been allot of advances in materials science regarding corrosion. I've made my opinions on protection/survivability clear in that it's over-rated in modern ships and the Japanese and to a lesser extent the Europeans agree with me.

If it's enables getting a ship out the door much quicker due to less redesign or enables a better ship on the FREMM hull they should 100% do it.
 
There's been allot of advances in materials science regarding corrosion. I've made my opinions on protection/survivability clear in that it's over-rated in modern ships and the Japanese and to a lesser extent the Europeans agree with me.

If it's enables getting a ship out the door much quicker due to less redesign or enables a better ship on the FREMM hull they should 100% do it.
Disagree. And honestly it's the (lack of) fire resistance that most concerns me.
 
... Let's not forget USN and USCG build to the same survivability standards for this hull size. Foreign designs did not meet them. ...
Hi,

I don't believe that is true. For instance I believe that per DPC-010/079-1 "DESIGN PRACTICES AND CRITERIA FOR U.S. NAVY SURFACE SHIP STABILITY AND RESERVE BUOYANCY" I believe that combatants of the size in question the design length of damage is 15% of the ship's length between perpendiculars but that a Coast Guard vessel is typically only designed to a 12.5% LBP length of damage.
 
More belligerent attitude from you.

Clearly the navy has never made mistakes and we should not criticize it at all. You of course would never criticize the navy.
You can’t substantiate the opinion anyway, you reject all the studies that form the basis of the survivability standards and the battle proven experience that keeps men alive and ships afloat, even if mission killed. What’s the point? It’s like you think the navy just summoned them for no reason
 
The FF(X) is a vote of no confidence in NAVSEA and US shipbuilding. Why an existing design? Because US shipbuilders struggle to do anything that hasn't been done before. Why no VLS? Because NAVSEA couldn't design a rowboat.

More or less, yeah. GWOT and the Peace Dividend double whammy actually just killed the USN.

Bad time to have shipbuilding troubles.
 
Please. Royal Navy in late 1890s were the guys who theoretically knew all the stuff; but they still trained with boarding sabers and cutlasses.
“Theoretically knew all their stuff” and they were proven to be the most powerful navy on earth in WW1? Idk my Russian friend, sounds like they knew their stuff
 
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The U.S. has consistently shown it knows what to do when acquiring new ship types by doing everything in its power to avoid that outcome.
Yet the successes still outnumber the failures..? The amphib programs have gone very well, as have the auxiliaries. Burke Flt III and even the IIA restart went well. Zumwalt failed, not due to standards, but an inability for the government to properly support the program and CG(X) was primarily not pursued as Flt III was more politically tenable and allowed time for technology to develop. What in that is a failing due to survivability standards?
 
“Theoretically knew all their stuff” and they were proven to be the most powerful navy on earth in WW1? Idk my Russian friend, sounds like they knew their stuff
Yeah, because they wisely changed their tactics & strategy under Fisher reforms, getting rid of the obsolete concept, and embracing innovative ones - like dreadnoughts, submarines and naval aviation - that went significantly against previous experience.

P.S. They weren't so lucky by WW2, by the way; most of their knowlegde was found to be obsolete and hardware not optimized.
 
Yet the successes still outnumber the failures..?

They don't.

The amphib programs have gone very well, as have the auxiliaries.

These are useless without a Battle Force for them to support.

Burke Flt III and even the IIA restart went well.

Flight III hasn't finished. It's one ship. IIA did okay because it didn't really stop.

Zumwalt failed, not due to standards,

Because of GWOT funding.

and CG(X) was primarily not pursued

Because of GWOT funding.

as Flt III was more politically tenable

No, it was an emergency program. It's a cheap way to get AMDR at sea while waiting for...whatever will actually carry AMDR.

What in that is a failing due to survivability standards?

NAVSEA had far more misses than hits since 1995 for the Battle Force. The reasons are not important because the reasons are symptoms of the cause of failure, which is that NAVSEA and the United States economy in general, have lost the ability to produce ships efficiently and on time since at least 2020. Maybe earlier.

Flight IIA succeeded but then how could it fail? It was 1995. IIA restart didn't really stop either (the delay was like...a year or three?) so that was relatively easy. Flight III seems to be okay but this could change on a whim next week or next month or six or ten or eighteen or whatever.

Zumwalt failed due to GWOT sucking the funding out. LCS-1 and LCS-2 both failed due to lack of support for mission modules because their costs inflated to the point where procurement ate the development budget. No more modules! Oops! FFG(X) failed because it wasn't engineered properly and it had uncontrollable growth increases, and that will continue to grow as the two ordered Connies get built. FF(X) might succeed, but it might also stop at one or two or three hulls, who knows! It's possible HII will get budget to produce a large number of 4923s, nobody really knows yet, but I suspect they won't. Where's the money gonna come from?

The 774s were smoothly designed but their production is bad. The 774s are supposed to be 2.0 hulls per year but they're 1.1 per year, down from 1.4 I believe, since 2022. They might put 7-8 in the water before the war kicks off. They've got orders for about 20 I think. Same with the Columbias. Columbia has slipped by a year. The follow on ships haven't slipped, yet. Same with the Fords. CVN-80 slipped from 2025 to now 2030. It's probably going to miss the party!

This all counts as failure. NAVSEA should be capable of reorganizing the production yards and supply chains promptly when necessary. They're just kind of not. So everything is a year or five behind here and getting worse.

DDG(X) failed. It never even bent metal. Unfortunate. BBG will perhaps fail, it's the safe bet, after all. Extraordinary ships require extraordinary evidence. SSN(X) might also fail, judging by how the surface fleet has gone, but hopefully the Navy isn't going for the option for 30+ SSN(X) and buys 30+ 774s instead out to 2054. They know how to make those.

LX(R) is currently in a state of limbo. It might be functionally canceled, even though it really can't be, because it's not really done anything for several years now. LHA Fallujah has slipped by a year, commensurate with the Columbias, so that's approaching a major failure. They've stopped buying LPD-17s to try to shift most the gator navy money to surface ships and submarines, I think, because there's just tons of backlogs.

It's a rough time for everyone, except one. The only program that seems to be on track is the Flight III production! Maybe?! Who knows! Nobody cares about the oilers or whatever, because they're not going to have much of a surface fleet to back up, but I assume they're on track. NASSCO can't be that bad because, much like the Burke printer, they're constantly working due to being flush with cash.

Also we need a new plane, a new nuclear warhead, and eventually a new SLBM. And Standards. And Tomahawks.

But other than all that, yeah, DON has done a good job.
 
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Flight IIA succeeded but then how could it fail? It was 1995. IIA restart didn't really stop either (the delay was like...a year or three?) so that was relatively easy.
5 years. And a total retooling of the shipyard for Zumwalts, then rebuilding the tooling for Flight 2A Restarts.
 

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