TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Nart said:
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TAI started blurring the P1... Roll-out by the very end of the year seems possible, even though major components like the radar, IRST, and the EOTS won’t be integrated until Q1-Q2 2026. So they might be ahead of the new delayed schedule by a bit even with the accounted delays of extensive preperations before the maiden flight of a first prototype.

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The new inlet design is visible too...

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As much as I don’t like this idiot, he does seem to be a credible insider when it comes to the TNI-AU. Is Indonesia putting a down payment on the Kaan?

From Turkey’s perspective, it makes sense to put it into contract to lock Indonesia into this long-term deal, given their track record of showing interest in aircraft and then backing out/losing interest.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1978601295402664253
View: https://x.com/AHelvas/status/1978601295402664253?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1978601295402664253%7Ctwgr%5Ef1dddffa545b365096f334844f73f0ff0613c6d7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sinodefenceforum.com%2Ft%2Fj-10-thread-iv.7305%2Fpage-838


That said, there hasn’t been an official contract signed yet, just a MoU with the Indonesian President.
 
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Low res image, of an Articulated Research Configuration model KAAN in TUSAS new BSAT-T wind tunnel facility

(looks like the inlets are smaller and pushed back some?)
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Various size wind tunnel cells;
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Source> https://www.tusas.com/medya-merkezi/Dergi?s=1&d=2025

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shitty comparison

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snne said:
Kaan's Toygun EOTS has flown for the first time, onboard a Baykar Kizilelma prototype...

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The defence media reports the flight as the first flight of MURAD AESA on KIZILELMA. are you saying this prototype has both a functioning, low-observable EOTS and an AESA radar? If so, that's awesome.

Körün istediği bir göz, Allah verdi iki göz
(literal translation: The blind man asked for one eye, and God gave him two.)
 
Combat-Master said:
Not exactly the same as KAAN, TOYGUN-200 will be on KAAN. TOYGUN-100 is for Kizilelma and ANKA-3
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Obviously - but it’s still related to the uprated version, which is also due to fly on the Kaan P1 in Q2 2026.

Lacy said:
are you saying this prototype has both a functioning, low-observable EOTS and an AESA radar? If so, that's awesome.
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This test flight was for the MURAD-100A, but I’m sure they’ll start testing the EOTS soon.

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snne said:
Obviously - but it’s still related to the uprated version, which is also due to fly on the Kaan P1 in Q2 2026.
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Oh right, cause the way you structured your sentence made it look like Kizilelma was flying with the much larger Toygun-200 that's intended for KAAN.
 
siegecrossbow said:
What are the specs for the radar? I’ve read that it could detect from 200KM away.
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No official specs yet, it's all classified. The only thing we’ve got are random figures thrown around by general managers to brush off reporters. But we know that it's got 1152 1138(?) GaN TRMs. We also know its ECS cooling capacity.


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Considering that it's primarily designed for the F-16, it's actually quite excellent... MURAD-100A of the F-16 Özgür is to the Kaan what the SABR is to the AN/APG-81 of the F-35.
 
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snne said:
SABR is to the AN/APG-81 of the F-35
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SABR is controversial radar though. It's both very advanced and not especially powerful, as it's air cooled. Given ESA scan limits, it is in some ways not that much better than an up to date 68.
AN/APG-80 of UAE block 60 was the "ambitious" falcon radar (though much heavier and bulkier).

MURAD tries to be better than 80(heck, from the outside it is more ambitious than emerging ECRS sets to some degree), but on old airframes unable to take that set. Very ambitious.
 
Ainen said:
SABR is controversial radar though. It's both very advanced and not especially powerful, as it's air cooled. Given ESA scan limits, it is in some ways not that much better than an up to date 68.
AN/APG-80 of UAE block 60 was the "ambitious" falcon radar (though much heavier and bulkier).

MURAD tries to be better than 80(heck, from the outside it is more ambitious than emerging ECRS sets to some degree), but on old airframes unable to take that set. Very ambitious.
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Hence the new ECS, as opposed to the "minimal required hardware changes" of the SABR...

I was trying to make a very loose analogy; just like how the APG-83 and -81 share the same TR modules and 85% of the software, the same will be true for the MURAD-100A and -600A, acc. to the officials...
 
snne said:
Hence the new ECS, as opposed to the "minimal required hardware changes" of the SABR...

I was trying to make a very loose analogy; just like how the APG-83 and -81 share the same TR modules and 85% of the software, the same will be true for the MURAD-100A and -600A, acc. to the officials...
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Do you reckon they will continue with the tile architecture for 600 series for KAAN ? AFAIK the brick architecture allows for better cooling and higher peak output power
 
Combat-Master said:
Do you reckon they will continue with the tile architecture for 600 series for KAAN ? AFAIK the brick architecture allows for better cooling and higher peak output power
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See:

Waterballoon said:
The side radars for Kaan has to be tile architecture based akin to the Murad-100 series of the F-16 and Akinci. It takes up relatively little space.

Although the side radars will have less range than the larger brick based nose radar, together with angular information from Karat and/or Toygun, it can focus a very narrow beam on targets to compensate for the lack of range in volume search. This way it can still track offset targets for missile guidance at long range, after handover from the more powerful nose radar.
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TEI General Manager Mahmut Faruk Akşit:

"In Türkiye, as of now, we have developed more than 20 superalloys and titanium alloys for our own engines.

If they don’t sell you superalloys that can operate at high temperatures, you’re left stranded. We are alloying the materials ourselves.

Starting from ore extracted from a mines in Türkiye, we have obtained pure cobalt and pure nickel. For the first time in Türkiye.

From the soil and mines of Türkiye to the engine, we have completed the entire technology chain.

We can formulate, melt, and produce the material ourselves. We have established a Material Characterization Center with international certification. The data from the tests we conduct here are internationally certified.

Let our people rest assured. They will soon see the TF35000. "

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https://teialloys.com/en/
 
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Scott Kenny said:
The whole production chain?!?

That is serious national bragging rights!
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i'm doubtful of the claim. they, for instance, mentioned a few years ago that they will be building 12.5k tons hydraulic press to forge titanium for engine parts, costing $200 millions but we have never heard of it since then. there would be hundreds of news published if the program was finished successfully or was making any progress.

to my knowledge, TEI still imports semi-finished titanium for blisk manufacturing.
 
Radonislav said:
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I think this is the model shop of the wind tunnel facility. I remember the same layout from the animation that was released during the groundbreaking ceremony.

That said, I wonder what those carton-looking mock-ups are for, especially the AIM-9M(?) one. It doesn't look anything like the Bozdogan at all.

They train interns with similar student projects, so the most likely candidate I can think of is this.

That said, I don’t think posting such images advances the discussion anymore; we’ve seen many similar photos in the past.

Edit: Here's the context:

Aircraft Engineering Department Students and Faculty (of the Turkish Aeronautical Association University) Visit TA for Educational Trip
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1982015076455284900
View: https://x.com/THKUniversitesi/status/1982015076455284900
 
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Waterballoon said:
The vertical stabs are still on top for P1

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Looks like the positioning changed for the wind tunnel model. Height changes incoming?

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Edit: Based on the reactions, no one here expects any changes between the upcoming prototypes. Good to have so much faith in something, especially if you think about the engine issues.
But I have to admit, changing the stab. positions would be far more drastic than, lets say the Hürjet P1/P2 adjustments and therefore unlikely (It's not China, after all).
 
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had said:
Looks like the positioning changed for the wind tunnel model. Height changes incoming?

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The production representative prototype is currently in FAL and the positions of the vertical stab hinges haven't changed.

For all we know, that plastic looking ahh model could be one of the many models that were previously studied, but the design is already frozen by now.

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It's great to receive even the smallest updates on the status of the P1, but we should avoid posting about any foreign visits unless they can genuinely be considered a "development". After all, there's usually someone important visiting TAI almost every day.
 
snne said:
It's great to receive even the smallest updates about the P1, but we should avoid posting about any foreign visits unless they can genuinely be considered a "development". After all, there's usually someone important visiting TAI almost every day.
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I will continue to post as I see fit, if the Mods or Admins do not think it contributes to the thread its for them to take action. Thank you for your attention.

--- EDIT ---
Nope, no P1 - likely it's on it's own landing gear since it's not on the assembly stand
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--- Nice glimpse of the assembly jigs ---
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