The Buscaylet-De Monge Type 7 series (7.1, 7.2, etc.)

[hesham]

Hi,

when I spoke about the De Monge M-120 RN.3 aircraft,my dear
Tophe responded about there are many De Monge twin boom
projects,as he mentioned (7.2, 7.3, 7.4, 7.5, 150),and please
my dear Tophe if you have a more info or drawings to them.

I only found a the Model 7.2 project;

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1923/1923%20-%200761.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1923/1923%20-%200762.html

 

[Retrofit]

Hi Hesham,

Here-after some informations from "Aviation Magazine" (Jean Liron, date ?) and "Flugsport" (March 1925) concerning the De Monge Twin-boom aircraft and projects with a main specifications table and two photos (bad, sorry, copy of copies).

Translation of the table:
Type / Engine / Power / Span / Lenght / Height / Wing Area / Empty weight / Total weight / Max speed / Autonomy / Use / Crew + pax / MFG year / Registration / Number produced / Remarks:
Type 7-2: Not finished. "Grand raid" version autonomy: 7000km
Type 7-3: Scale model 1/3 of Type 7-2
Type 7-4: Scale model 1/3 of Type 150
Type 7-5: 2nd scale model 1/3 of Type 150


De Monge also designed a twin boom experimental glider which was engaged at the "Sailplane Offical Meeting of Combegrasse", France, in August 1922, piloted by Casale.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Retrofit very much,

and for the Type-150,was it a military transport aircraft ?.

 

[Triton]

Scale model of DeMonge Type 7.5.

Three-view drawing of DeMonge Type 7.5.

Source: The Bugatti Revue
http://home.uni-one.nl/bugatti/revue3/rev3-4.htm

 

[Tophe]

I will check, maybe next week-end, but I just had a look on my bibliographic booklet. Sources :
- Burnelli lifting body chapter :
Trait d’Union Bacalan Special : 3v of 7.5
Pilote Privé : 3v of glider 1922
Trait d’Union 171: details on 120
Jane’s 1927 : photo of 7.4, details
Aviation Magazine 383 : 3v of 7.3 and 7.4
The 7.4 and 7.5 were 2-seat models at scale 1/3 of the big 150 with 10 seats (the 7.2 having 32 seats)
- Pod and booms chapter :
Aviation Magazine 384 : 3v of 120RN3
That is all I have written down in the past. What should I check first, someday? (the Pilote Privé photocopy would be very difficult to find this year).

EDIT. The 120RN3 3-view has been posted by Hesham at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10809.0.html

 

[Retrofit]

Hi Triton,

The wording of "The Bugatti Revue " website can be misleading.
The photo shows in fact the full scale Type 7-5, which was itself a 1/3 scale model of the Type 150.

Thank you for this link!

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears Very much,

and here is the De Monge 7/4.

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/buscaylet_74.php

 

[Tophe]

"Le Trait d'Union" 164, first post: glider built in 1922

 

[hesham]

De Monge also designed a twin boom experimental glider which was engaged at the "Sailplane Offical Meeting of Combegrasse", France, in August 1922, piloted by Casale.

It was called DMP-1.

 

[hesham]

OK,I will try to remember the source,but most of them in my files without any reference.

 

[Stargazer]

De Monge DMP-1, as shared by member dan_inbox in a post I moved (see The Bar):

 

[hesham]

From, Notiziaro di Aeronautica 1924,

by the way,there is a series from de Monge 7.1 to 7.9,and the last one
is very similar ro 7.2,but withour the central engine.

 

[Stargazer]

Four magnificent photos of the De Monge 7-3 prototype during the 1925 Coupe Zénith competition at Orly.
It was powered by two 35-hp Anzani enines and sported temporary designation [F-ESEO].
(source: Gallica)

 

[Stargazer]

There are so many documents and information pertaining to the Type 7 series that I've chosen to make it into a separate topic.
Depending on sources, the designations can be found as 7/1, 7/2, etc. or 7.1, 7.2, etc., and even plain 71, 72, etc.
I'll be using the version with the slash, but I'll admit it's arbitrary.

The first aircraft of the Type 7 series was the Type 7/1 glider, also known as the D.M.P. 1 (for De Monge Planeur N° 1).
Developed by Louis De Monge and Daniel Montagne, and built by Buscaylet, it introduced the twin-boom flying-wing configuration of the entire series. Two identical gliders were introduced at the Combegrasse competition in 1922, and were flown in various events that year and the following.

From L'Aéronautique, August 1922:

 

[Stargazer]

The Type 7/2 was an extremely ambitious transport flying wing project, and totally revolutionary for a 1923 project. Imagine this: a blended-wing transport type seating 32 (crew included), a merer 20 years after the Wrights first flew!
It was to be powered by three 370 hp Lorraine-Dietrich 12 Da engines.
Louis De Monge conducted the project for Buscaylet-Bobin, and it would seem that a prototype was started, but not completed.

 

[Stargazer]

The Type 7/3 was conceived as a 1:3 scale version of the Type 7/2.
It was introduced in 1923, but was not quite satisfactory yet. Its engines were two 35 hp Anzani 3 A-2 types.
It was supposed to be flown at the Vauville competition but failed to participate, and though it did fly in the Coupe Zenith, it could not finish the race. There was only one prototype, with temporary registration F-ESEO. It can be recognized by its tall squared-off rudders.

 

[Stargazer]

The Type 150 (the only variant not carrying the number 7) was a 1925 revision of the Type 7/2 design.
Very little information exists, but it carried only 10 people instead of 32.
I haven't been able to locate any image of that project, but maybe another member can help?

 

[Stargazer]

Described as a 1:3 scale version of Type 150; the Type 7/4 was apparently just the former Type 7/3 modified. The rudders were now rounded-off, and the engines were changed to two 35 hp Vaslin V 6B types.
The aviation press of the time was enthusiastic about the plane, as can be seen in the following articles:

From L'Aérotechnique, October 1923:


From Les Ailes, Oct. 10, 1923:


From L'Aérophile, Nov. 1, 1924:



From Taschenbuch der Luftflotten, 1924-25 edition:


From Flight, Dec. 20, 1923:


From Aviation, March 3, 1924:

 

[Stargazer]

The Type 7/5 was generally similar to the 7/4 but the major difference was the shape of the wings.
It was powered by two 45 hp 1500 cc Bugatti 9 H engines.
It shined in the 1924 tourism aircraft competition, piloted as usual by Descamps.

From Les Ailes, July 17, 1925:


From L'Aéronautique, January 1926:








The Type 7/5, wrongly labeled as the 7/4 in Taschenbuch der Luftflotten, 1927 edition:


From Aviation, Mar 8, 1926


From Aero Digest, June 1926:

 

[Stargazer]

According to @hesham, the Type 7 series continued with projects 7/6 to 7/9.
I haven't found anything about those, but perhaps he has some information about them?

Meanwhile, here is a beautiful desktop model of a twin-engine De Monge similar to the Type 7 series but with much rounder wingtips.
I'm not able at present to determine what specific type it was meant to depict.

 

[hesham]

According to @hesham, the Type 7 series continued with projects 7/6 to 7/9.
I haven't found anything about those, but perhaps he has some information about them?

Meanwhile, here is a beautiful desktop model of a twin-engine De Monge similar to the Type 7 series but with much rounder wingtips.
I'm not able at present to determine what specific type it was meant to depict.

View attachment 788250

Nice find Stargazer,where did you find it ?, it's de Monge 7.9.

 

[Stargazer]

Nice find Stargazer,where did you find it ?, it's de Monge 7.9.

Are you sure about this? I found it on this page devoted to de Monge:

https://fr.hangarflying.eu/2015/06/louis-de-monge-van-ohey-naar-oshkosh/

 

[Stargazer]

I've added items about the Types 7/4 and 7/5 from U.S. and British publications of the time.

 

[hesham]

Are you sure about this? I found it on this page devoted to de Monge:

https://fr.hangarflying.eu/2015/06/louis-de-monge-van-ohey-naar-oshkosh/

Of course I am sure,but nice find.

 

[lark]

According to @hesham, the Type 7 series continued with projects 7/6 to 7/9.
I haven't found anything about those, but perhaps he has some information about them?

Meanwhile, here is a beautiful desktop model of a twin-engine De Monge similar to the Type 7 series but with much rounder wingtips.
I'm not able at present to determine what specific type it was meant to depict.

View attachment 788250

A further development of the 7.5 - may have been - the 7.9 which is sometimes mentioned.
but of which no details are known.
At the family castle at Wallay , a wooden model was found and restored by Ladislas de Monge in 2009...

So far: Jaap Horst in his book " The Bugatti 100P record plane " Violaero , page 176.

 

[Stargazer]

A further development of the 7.5 - may have been - the 7.9 which is sometimes mentioned.
but of which no details are known.
At the family castle at Wallay , a wooden model was found and restored by Ladislas de Monge in 2009...

So far: Jaap Horst in his book " The Bugatti 100P record plane " Violaero , page 176.

Thanks. This confirms the fact that the photo I shared above indeed depicts the 7.9.

 

[Stargazer]

Something new to me about the Type 7/5: it was built by none other than Marcel Riffard himself!

In 1924, he is Technical Director of the De Monge workshops where he builds the 7-5, a one-third scale flying model of a "habitable" wing; cutting-edge work again.

From Les Ailes, Dec. 3, 1936: "Les 28 ans d'aviation de Marcel Riffard"

 

[Stargazer]

An article from Aviation Magazine, Nov. 15, 1963, about Louis de Monge's Type 7 series:

 

[Stargazer]

Contrary to L'Aéronautique, which stated in its August issue that Buscaylet-de Monge entered two identical (Type 7/1) gliders at Combegrasse in 1922, L'Aérophile talked about only one flown there in its October issue. It is possible that the second one wasn't ready in time, since the first one is said here to have arrived late:

de Monge Monoplane. — In the same fashion as the Dewoitine machines, this one has a limp wing and an original configuration (with its skid also acting as a fuselage longeron). Unfortunately, a late arrival and a bad landing on rocks on the first flight convinced the builder to abandon the race.

 

[Deltafan]

There are so many documents and information pertaining to the Type 7 series that I've chosen to make it into a separate topic.
Depending on sources, the designations can be found as 7/1, 7/2, etc. or 7.1, 7.2, etc., and even plain 71, 72, etc.
I'll be using the version with the slash, but I'll admit it's arbitrary.

The first aircraft of the Type 7 series was the Type 7/1 glider, also known as the D.M.P. 1 (for De Monge Planeur N° 1).
Developed by Louis De Monge and Daniel Montagne, and built by Buscaylet, it introduced the twin-boom flying-wing configuration of the entire series. Two identical gliders were introduced at the Combegrasse competition in 1922, and were flown in various events that year and the following.

From L'Aéronautique, August 1922:
View attachment 788225
View attachment 788226

View attachment 788218
View attachment 788219View attachment 788220View attachment 788221View attachment 788222View attachment 788217

It seems that I finally found the name of this plane that I couldn't identify on the cover of this book:

 

[Stargazer]

It seems that I finally found the name of this plane that I couldn't identify on the cover of this book:

Thanks to your reference I was able to find a better resolution image of that cover photo:

 

[dan_inbox]

It matches well the photos in your post #14 above.

 

[Stargazer]

Although it was not a twin-boom, I can see some commonality between de Monge's and Klemperer's own monoplane glider of 1921: