Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon - NEWS

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It seems as if Ukraine is taking a more hands-on control on their crew training with a direct copycat of DoD approach to operational training. I would not be surprised if that be the first step to in-country crew conversion for a more homogeneous fleet built around a ramp up in F-16 induction.
 
Unless you have seen the actual contracts, it is hard to comment. One might be surprised that even 'boring' things get contracted to companies such as these.
 
Here is the actual DSCA statement:


Note that the $310.5 million cost is the estimated total cost, not that for any one contractor. Also note the following statement: "The description and dollar value are for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements. Actual dollar value will be lower depending on final requirements, budget authority, and signed sales agreement(s), if and when concluded."
 
I fully understand. What it tells us is that there is significant value and professionalism to scale it into something that would drastically change the status quo. From a meager components to a potent integrated force.
 
Scorpion82 said:
but that "an emergency occured" during the interceptuon of drones and the pilot had to eject from the aircraft... Not the same as being downed by a drone.
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Maybe the F-16 was too close to the drone when it was intercepted resulting in some debris going into its' air-intake causing engine FOD?
 
Forest Green said:
www.twz.com

Air Force Chief Responds To Possibility Of Buying New 'Block 80' F-16s

The Air Force is still facing an aging fighter fleet and its top officer said loyal wingman drones won't solve the problem alone. A previously unknown Block 80 version of the iconic F-16 fighter was discussed by the Air Force Chief of Staff today.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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If they can add extra funding to the budget then they should certainly be procuring more F-16 and F-15 otherwise the US Air Force is increasingly looking like they are flying a bunch of classic cars.
 
Forest Green said:
www.twz.com

Air Force Chief Responds To Possibility Of Buying New 'Block 80' F-16s

The Air Force is still facing an aging fighter fleet and its top officer said loyal wingman drones won't solve the problem alone. A previously unknown Block 80 version of the iconic F-16 fighter was discussed by the Air Force Chief of Staff today.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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Not really very honest reporting by TWZ, I expect Allen taking the questions on notice is essentially his way of saying we aren't even thinking about that. Unless there was a drastic increase in F-16 production it is unlikely the price would reduce significantly compared to just buying more F-35s setting aside the cost pathway to develop a Blk 80 that was actually worthwhile for the USAF to operate. The real solution is to fund the F-35 at the rate previously expected, in the 80+ a year mark, and not languish in the 40s.
 
Gen. Deptula: There’s no legal prohibition that outright prevents U.S. pilots—those no longer on active duty—from supporting Ukraine, just as many U.S. ground veterans have done. The real challenge is practical and political, not legal. Flying an F-16 in combat isn’t just about sitting in the cockpit—it’s about full integration into command and control systems, rules of engagement, and the overall air campaign plan. That said, with proper diplomatic channels and agreements in place, it’s entirely feasible to allow experienced American pilots to contribute—particularly in advisory or training roles, as well as in combat if they fly under Ukrainian command.
Let’s not forget: Ukraine’s air defense depends heavily on Western-supplied systems, and American pilots bring unmatched expertise in maximizing those systems' potential. If the decision were made, and the integration issues worked out, they could make an immediate difference.
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Thai F-16 Strikes As Border Dispute With Cambodia Erupts​

www.twz.com

Thai F-16 Strikes As Border Dispute With Cambodia Erupts

Long-running tensions have spilled over into heavy exchanges of fire in the disputed border region between Thailand and Cambodia. Long-running tensions have spilled over into heavy exchanges of fire in the disputed border region between Thailand and Cambodia.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
Here's a bit of news of sorts concerning how Ukraine has been keeping its' F-16s operational and it's very clever of them too, from Wes O'Donnell:


And there's nothing Russia can do about it. In this video, I dive into how Ukraine’s Air Force, backed by the non-profit Come Back Alive and state oil company Ukrnafta, has deployed a fleet of custom-built ground vehicles to support F-16 operations from just about anywhere. Think mobile weapon loaders, tactical briefing rooms on wheels, and what I can only describe as an Air Force RV, with a shower.​
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This is the very definition of "austere" and expeditionary operations.​
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Ukraine’s airfields are being hunted relentlessly by Russian drones and missiles, and standing still is a bad idea. So, the Ukrainians are doing what they do best: moving fast, adapting faster, and teaching NATO how to wage war in the 21st century.​
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I break down the entire system, from the Iveco and Peugeot-based mobile maintenance trucks to the MAN 6x6 mission planning rigs, and explain why this mobile strategy could be NATO’s future, not just Ukraine’s present.​
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This video also explores how this dispersed operations model fits perfectly with NATO’s Agile Combat Employment (ACE) doctrine, and what it means for the survivability of F-16s in a contested battlespace. From highway landings to mobile command centers, Ukraine is turning its air war into a rolling thunder campaign.​
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I was going to post this in the Ukraine F-16 thread but I'd forgot that it was locked.
 
and teaching NATO how to wage war in the 21st century.
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I think I'm dying from laughter right now, yikes.

Furthermore, they're landing these on highways? With how low the intakes are on the F-16, I don't want to know the odds of ingesting a foreign object, that sounds less than ideal given that the F-16 is more or less meant to operate from perfect runways, running on the vast NATO infrastructure.

And here I was thinking them flying the F-16s into drones was the biggest risk...
 
And there's nothing Russia can do about it.
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Iskanders, Khinzals, Gerans, Kh-101s on Western Ukraine

S-400s, Flankers and Felons if air battles are still happening over Sumy


There’s a lot Russia can do.
 
ComradeVortex said:
Didn’t they lose already a couple airplanes due to Gerans?

Both F-16s and Mirages, right?
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Yeah, also MiG-29s. Mirage was mechanical failure IIRC and I don't see a reason to doubt that one based on what's publicly known (after all they admitted it was due to drones in other instances).

I personally think the F-16 was still not a good pick for Ukraine, logstics this and that, yadadada. Ukraine doesn't have the infrastructure and expertise to operate an aircraft that was very much designed to operate most efficiently in the wider NATO and NATO-adjacent framework. Something like a Gripen C or F/A-18C/D would have suited their circumstances far more, after all available MiG-29s were already handed to them.

Imo the best bed would have been to give them F-16s after the war is over, fund and help them overhaul their infrastructure and then you can from the ground up integrate their operations and training into the wider western framework without pressure and the lost jets, lives and money. Because let's be honest, these F-16s aren't doing anything important right now either way. And that was to be expected with the circumstances at hand (rushed training, inexperienced ground crews, terrible environment to operate it, constant threat of drone, missile and air attacks). So I think we can't even be mad at them for not performing, because they never had a chance to utilize these jets in a meaningful way.

While handing them ANG or former USAF F-16 Block 50/52s after the war to familiarize them with NATO equipment, NATO standards, procedures, maintenance, infrastructure and systems would have been a more effective use of the available people, some of which have no sadly passed away with little impact. These people could have undergone the usual length, in-depth training, remained in the US, fly there training and exercises and could have trained a next generation of post-war pilots. It is in every way imaginable unfortunate.
 
eagle said:
Polish F-16 operate from highway: https://theaviationist.com/2023/09/19/route-604-exercise/
Similar to Taiwan and Singapore. All Vipers involved crashed due to FOD. Not.
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"First Highway Strip Exercise In Decades"
You are aware that a pre-planned exercise, with plenty of time to prepare the road, have several aircraft run on it before and not under the pressure of active war fighting isn't comparable, right?

The F-16 in particular is prone to this kind of damage, it's intake is low and from what I gathered has a tendency to create vortices that can suck up debris and lead to FOD ingestion:
an-engine-intake-vortex-forms-on-an-f-16c-fighting-47c065-1024.jpg

For comparison, the early MiG-29s had austere deployments from fields and road in mind, but also low intakes like the F-16. They counteracted this with louvers on top to allow airflow into the engine while the main intakes were closed so that no FOD ingestion could occur:
FpyulpeaMAA9Mmd.jpg
qmi7csg7r1m61.jpg

The Saab Gripen is a more modern example of that philosophy of having a very flexible aircraft that's meant to be operated from literally anywhere, it's intakes are fairly high up: gripen_hun_boden.jpg
 
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EmoBirb said:
... I personally think the F-16 was still not a good pick for Ukraine, logstics this and that, yadadada. Ukraine doesn't have the infrastructure and expertise to operate an aircraft that was very much designed to operate most efficiently in the wider NATO and NATO-adjacent framework. Something like a Gripen C or F/A-18C/D would have suited their circumstances far more...
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So the roughly zero available surplus Gripen Cs would have been a better bet than those sub-optimal F-16s then being withdrawn from Dutch, Danish, and Norwegian service? Perfect. Enemy. Good.
 
Apophenia said:
So the roughly zero available surplus Gripen Cs would have been a better bet than those sub-optimal F-16s then being withdrawn from Dutch, Danish, and Norwegian service? Perfect. Enemy. Good.
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Well, other equipment was given to Ukraine without immediate replacement as well, British SPGs for example. But F/A-18C/Ds are more readily available and also more suitable, they can also handle rough landings. Ideal would be MiG-29s for the Ukraine, because they know them in and out. The Indians have couple of 'em, probably would have readily traded them against some Rafales, coalition of the willing, right?

Either way, the F-16 is far from the most ideal choice. And due to that, accidents will mount further than they already do. Luckily there's a thread for such news regarding that particular aircraft...
 
EmoBirb said:
You are aware that a pre-planned exercise, with plenty of time to prepare the road, have several aircraft run on it before and not under the pressure of active war fighting isn't comparable, right?
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You are aware that every runway needs to be prepared for operations? Doesn't matter if it's Heathrow or a highway strip.
If you don't do that, F-16s or any other aircraft will suffer FOD damage.
 
eagle said:
You are aware that every runway needs to be prepared for operations? Doesn't matter if it's Heathrow or a highway strip.
If you don't do that, F-16s or any other aircraft will suffer FOD damage.
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A genuine runway is a more heavily controlled environment specifically meant for the operation of aircraft. A shitty, terribly maintained Ukrainian countryside road is even with prep and several FOD walks less than ideal for a runway queen like the F-16.

It's rather self evident how that could lead to problems, in my opinion. We don't have to artificially inflate the thread with further replies regarding this topic though. Everything that needed to be said, has been said.

Cheerio.

Edit: I toned down the passive aggressive attitude, my apologies
 
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Then don't bring it up in the first place. But I agree, no point in arguing.
 

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