"Arsenal Plane" Concepts

[jsport]

As LM was quick to point out 6th gen is in the software not the airframe. Bombtrucks are the future so consider whatever hardware enhancements necessary or stay at 28. Two planes w/ 56 is .5 a division thus the armored offensive is bomb stopped.

 

[bobbymike]

Sorry to be a pedant but IMHO to fit the definition of an arsenal plane it has to be a heavy bomber sized, or very near to it, aircraft with A2A capability.

A B-52 that can carry ALCMs gets updated to carry LRSOs doesn’t magically become an arsenal plane. A heavy bomber build for that purpose that gets updated to drop other bombs is an updated bomber. A fighter sized aircraft is a fighter-bomber.

I guess you could include a smaller aircraft that was built to solely drop bombs adding air to air, a regional arsenal plane, sort of (probably still better called a fighter-bomber.

Just a personal opinion that keeps the concept clearer in my mind.

 

[Josh_TN]

More A-10 Warthogs deploy to the Middle East

"Several" A-10 Warthogs and more than 300 airmen are deploying as the U.S. military builds up forces in the region amid fighting in Yemen.

taskandpurpose.com

Glade to hear someone actually looked at the previous article, the bomb trucks require hardpoints or an internal bay. Hog has hangers and 250s r light.

The hogs practice gunning & thumping a couple miles from here highlights the Hog's continued presence.

Oooo, eventually several A-10s were deployed. Are we saved yet? Has anyone reported that they actually bombed anything yet?

 

[Josh_TN]

As LM was quick to point out 6th gen is in the software not the airframe. Bombtrucks are the future so consider whatever hardware enhancements necessary or stay at 28. Two planes w/ 56 is .5 a division thus the armored offensive is bomb stopped.

6th gen is marketing and software is limited by the computer hardware it is run on - see F-35 tech refresh as a stumbling block to blk 4.

If software/processing is your argument, I would be surprised if the entire A-10 fleet had the processing power of a single TF F-35 aircraft. But sure, slap some software patches on that big dick 30 mm like it was viagra for Hugh Hef.

 

[DWG]

Two planes w/ 56 is .5 a division thus the armored offensive is bomb stopped.

56 weapons/targets is not half a division.

A division is typically 9-10 manoeuvre battalions, each with around 50-70 AFVs.

 

[jsport]

56 weapons/targets is not half a division.

A division is typically 9-10 manoeuvre battalions, each with around 50-70 AFVs.

No one cares about afvs. Tanks for memory. Modern realistic deployments of divisions lose 50 tanks the initiative is over.

 

[DWG]

No one cares about afvs.

So how come everyone is buying them? Major 4-nation CV-90 buy announced just last week, Boxer, Redback, Lynx and Puma selling like hotcakes, XM-30 to come. The professional militaries seem to care rather a lot about AFVs.

 

[TomS]

So how come everyone is buying them? Major 4-nation CV-90 buy announced just last week, Boxer, Redback, Lynx and Puma selling like hotcakes, XM-30 to come. The professional militaries seem to care rather a lot about AFVs.

AFV is Armored Fighting Vehicle. That includes Tanks, IFVs, and a host of other vehicles.

 

[DWG]

AFV is Armored Fighting Vehicle. That includes Tanks, IFVs, and a host of other vehicles.

Agreed, I was trying to keep it simple by pointing out one major omission at a time.

 

[jsport]

Statement stands, tanks would be targeted and would stifle operational initiative. this has become tedious.

 

[yeetmahboi]

Houthi And The Blowfish

Because Houthi is the biggest Iran proxy and has the best of stuff, duh. They have the weird loitering MANPADS that none professional military has fielded any equivalent to yet. Nor is the USN actually committed to a cleansing anywhere close to what was seen in ODS. So the comparison is moot to begin with.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Well if she will get a new model ident (J), why not opting for a new name: the Superforeverstress(ed)?!

No, we all know that the proper name for the air-to-air capable B52 is Megafortress. Thank you Dale Brown.

Can they use Boeing 737 ?

No. Rapid Dragon needs a rear cargo door to roll out the back. 737s don't have a rear door like that, and can't really have one added, either.

How?
That would be 10 BRU-61 racks. As noted in the article, 4 racks is the maximum currently i.e. 16 SDBs.
Stations 3 and 9 (the "Maverick stations", right outside the main gear) could support another pair.
But that's it, stations 1, 2, 10, 11 don't support multiple racks.
In theory, a single bomb could be carried there for a maximum of 28 bombs.

I've seen a dual-Sidewinder rack on either Station 1 or 11, and the other one is carrying an ECM pod, basically all the time. So even if they could carry the weight of a BRU-61, I don't think any pilot would want to carry there.

So we'd only be adding Stations 2 and 10. What's the weight limits on Stations 2 and 10, 2000lbs? If it is 2000lbs, then they could carry a loaded BRU-61.

Is there enough space to add a BRU-61 to the centerline pylon (what is that, station 6?) if there's also BRU-61s on the stations at the edge of the fuselage (5 and 7?)?

If stations 2 and 10 have the weight capacity, an A-10 could carry 8x or 9x BRU-61s for 32x or 36x SDBs.

 

[Josh_TN]

Because Houthi is the biggest Iran proxy and has the best of stuff, duh. They have the weird loitering MANPADS that none professional military has fielded any equivalent to yet. Nor is the USN actually committed to a cleansing anywhere close to what was seen in ODS. So the comparison is moot to begin with.

If a non government group supplied by Iran can operate medium range SAMs with enough skill that they are still a threat six weeks later, I think we can assume that is the new normal for most anyone the U.S. would face and turn the page on the A-10.

 

[TomcatViP]

A-10 is not adapted to seek targets alone far past the FLOT (something that most airframe have to do in Yemen).
On the contrary, I see the A-10 payload capacity as a good arsenal plane orbitting closer to the front line while able to operate according to ACE.

Regarding Houti apparent resilience, those that have still in memory Rolling Thunder and alikes in Vietnam would say that this is not surprising. Crippling something that does not need a structured network and solid infrastructure to pursue its fight is like attempting a spinal surgery on an invertebrate...

 

[Josh_TN]

A-10 is not adapted to seek targets alone far past the FLOT (something that most airframe have to do in Yemen).
On the contrary, I see the A-10 payload capacity as a good arsenal plane orbitting closer to the front line while able to operate according to ACE.

Regarding Houti apparent resilience, those that have still in memory Rolling Thunder and alikes in Vietnam would say that this is not surprising. Crippling something that does not need a structured network and solid infrastructure to pursue its fight is like attempting a spinal surgery on an invertebrate...

What exactly would these A-10s be launching, and how would target information be transferred to them?

As for Yemen, yes it was predictable. The current administration thought the previous administration was just incapable of anything, when in fact it turns out suppressing an enemy that operates with almost no infrastructure is in fact hard after all, and the second attempt is not any better thought out, just bigger.

 

[TomcatViP]

I don´t see them as being that bad. There is numerous traces that they had this in mind putting in place their strategy. The MQ-9 tally is simply a consequence of the asymmetry in logistics, and a part only of one aspect of that fight (contest and punish).
It takes a lot of birds and orbits to track a mule in the desert. The rejoicing point is that no blood is spilled doing so. We can only remember the gamut of Voodoo, RF-4, Vigilante and RF-8 pilots that went down during their missions in Vietnam.

A-10 launching sdb:

View: https://youtu.be/lQT-1e5hZns&t=3m

 

[Josh_TN]

I don’t think there’s any chance of A-10s getting into SDB range of peer competitors. This is nothing a C-130 could not do at lower cost and higher volume with more loiter time.

 

[Ainen]

I don’t think there’s any chance of A-10s getting into SDB range of peer competitors.

Why?
Nap of the Earth flight to flot and back. Though SDB itself is not a good weapon for the job, spear is better choice due to booster.

 

[Josh_TN]

Why?
Nap of the Earth flight to flot and back. Though SDB itself is not a good weapon for the job, spear is better choice due to booster.

I think you answered your own question? It is a relatively short ranged weapon dependent on high altitude for range.

In the short term, I think A-10s are only useful as MALD dispensers. And again, how is this more useful than C-130s?

 

[TomcatViP]

Time to effect can be very short. In the video above you can see that multiple strike are done with the aircraft taking cover b/w them. A C-130 would have had to loiter at alt to offer the same effect, hence at quite some range that its weapons would have to cover themselves, increasing cost, the burden on logistic and endangering troops with an offset in reaction time.