Helicopter crashes in Hudson River in New York City, all 6 on board killed

It actually might be a good to have an aviation disaster thread---I have the feeling we are going to see even more of these—in fact:
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1o47kme/helicopter_crash_in_huntington_beach_ca

Light plane hits tractor trailer

nypost.com

2 dead after plane crashes into 18-wheeler in fiery explosion, shocking video shows

Thick plumes of smoke rising from the wreckage were visible from miles away.
nypost.com nypost.com
nypost.com

Wild video shows Texas airport worker lose control of fuel hose, spewing highly flammable liquid all over

Video shows a worker appearing to lose their grip on the refuelling hose, causing jet fuel to uncontrollably spray out of the nozzle as the hose viciously snaked underneath the aircraft.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
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Probably not mast bump, the Heli was flying level and bumping occurs when you unload the disk.

The whole tail boom separated, which normally would be part of the tail boom if it was bumping as one of the blades normally cuts some of the boom off.

The whole top structure of the helis separated and the rotor head was still in one piece and rotating when it hit the water.

Still not sure what exactly would have caused such a violent breakup, but sure they will know shortly.

Regards,
 
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Upon further thought I think it was a tail rotor, gearbox failure/seizure which then induced violent yaw due to the rotor head torque on the fuselage.

The tail boon and vertical fin would then have the force of 200+ kph wind hitting it sideways as that is the approx. cruise speed, that would exceed its braking point.

Same with the front section, was going into the wind and then suddenly sideways and mass deceleration occurred.

Mass and inertia of the rotor head would have juts ripped the head possibly retransmission out at the same time.

Just a thought.

Regards,
 
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DWG said:
Gearbox failure similar to the issues around the Super Puma in the North Sea and Norway? Both Bond Flight 85N and CHC Flight 241 had inflight rotor separation
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I am curious about the exact chain of events that might cause a gearbox failure leading to rotor separation - post seizing up angular momentum resulting in torque overload for the rotor shaft?
 
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[Regarding the 2016 Super Puma crash - Admin]

Firstly, the second stage planetary gear had subsurface cracks, it fractured, and chain of events were started.

This caused a failure of a second stage planet gear.

This in turn fractured the rim of the gear, which caused cracks it the gearbox and the rotor head separated.

In all the design for rotor heads the best was MD 369 and the Apache, they both had a static mast that was contacted to the frame and not directly to the gearbox.

In the case of these airframes the static mast was hollow, and a torque tube went up inside. the rotorhead was locked to the mast and could rotate.

if the transmission failed the torque would strip and rotor would still be able to rotate for auto rotation.

The swashplate moves up/down the O.D. of the static mast.

None of the head loads and the like would ever be transmitted through the MGB.

Thats Howard Hughes for you.............


Screenshot 2024-06-23 092113.png


146ebf6bffec75b358e120b0c0c6a48a2e227ea3.jpg

technical_features.jpg


Regards,
 
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martinbayer said:
I am curious about the exact chain of events that might cause a gearbox failure leading to rotor separation
Click to expand...

This is what happened in regards to the Super Puma incident years ago.

Firstly, the second stage planetary gear had subsurface cracks, it fractured, and chain of events were started.

This caused a failure of a second stage planet gear.

This in turn fractured the rim of the gear, which caused cracks it the gearbox and the rotor head separated.

No speculation.

I then added my thoughts on the best design rotorhead, Hughes 369 and Apache.

I offered my thoughts regarding the NYC crash and clearly stated they were my thoughts.

Regards,
 
Halcyon66 said:
This is what happened in regards to the Super Puma incident years ago.

Firstly, the second stage planetary gear had subsurface cracks, it fractured, and chain of events were started.

This caused a failure of a second stage planet gear.

This in turn fractured the rim of the gear, which caused cracks it the gearbox and the rotor head separated.

No speculation.

I offered my thoughts regarding the NYC crash and clearly stated they were my thoughts.

Regards,
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I appreciate your thoughts and insights, and your speculation may well be correct, but I reserve my final conclusion to the issuing of the official accident report by the authorities.
 
Hang on you still think there is speculation regarding the last Super Puma crash in 2016?

I am lost?

Regards,
 
Exactly I explained the MGB failure of the Super Puma crash in 2016 as per the question.

I also offered my thoughts on the demise of the NYC airframe which are completely different.

I don't think he understands that only a helicopter MGB (main gear box) have planetary gear systems whereas the tail rotor has spiral/bevel gear box as the MGB has dropped the rpm significantly from the turbine already that is then feed by shafts to the tail GB.

I then added my thoughts on the best design rotorhead in my opinion, the Hughes 369 and Apache due to their static masts.

apnews.com

What we know about the New York City helicopter crash that killed 6 people

Six people were killed when a sightseeing helicopter broke apart and crashed into the Hudson River between New York City and New Jersey.
apnews.com apnews.com

Hemendy said the NTSB would not speculate on the cause of the crash so early in the investigation.

The main and rear rotors of the helicopter, along with its transmission, roof and tail structures had still not been found as of Friday, she said.

Regards,
 
Halcyon66 said:
Hang on you still think there is speculation regarding the last Super Puma crash in 2016?

I am lost?

Regards,
Click to expand...
You are indeed :). I have zero interest in re-litigating previous accidents - my focus is on the NYC disaster.
 
Source Scott Manley on X
Golyp0lWcAAItv2
 
Halcyon66 said:
Upon further thought I think it was a tail rotor, gearbox failure/seizure which then induced violent yaw due to the rotor head torque on the fuselage.

The tail boon and vertical fin would then have the force of 200+ kph wind hitting it sideways as that is the approx. cruise speed, that would exceed its braking point.

Same with the front section, was going into the wind and then suddenly sideways and mass deceleration occurred.

Mass and inertia of the rotor head would have juts ripped the head possibly retransmission out at the same time.

Just a thought.
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Unlikely, because there's a freewheel clutch between the engine and main rotor gearbox on a Jetranger.

Lose the tail rotor entirely and the freewheel clutch disengages. The airframe unloads really quickly.

Plus, a loss of tail rotor is one of the accidents helo pilots train all the time to handle. The other accident is loss of engine -> autorotation




Halcyon66 said:
I then added my thoughts on the best design rotorhead in my opinion, the Hughes 369 and Apache due to their static masts.
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Which is completely irrelevant to a crash involving a Bell 206, which has a Huey-type two-bladed teetering rotor.


This is definitely going to be an Emergency AD crash. Probably have to start eddy current inspecting the frame and fuselage pieces holding the rotor gearbox to the airframe.
 
Can the members in the States verify these allegations?

t.me

Cyberspec News

Siemens… • Siemens CEO killed in suspicious helicopter crash in New York last week • Jessica Aber, the prosecutor who led the high-profile Siemens corporate espionage investigation, died in her sleep in March • Siemens' last CFO Heinz-Joachim Neubürger committed suicide Seems a lot of Siemens...
t.me t.me
 
yahya said:
Can the members in the States verify these allegations?
Click to expand...
On Heinz-Joachim Neubürger
he was Chief Financial Officer at Siemens until 2006
were he left the company before a huge finance scandal hit Siemens.
what follows were juristic battle between Siemens and Neubürger, what ende in 2014.
after he lost that, Neubürger committed Suicide in 2015.

Jessica Aber dead was related to her illness with epilepsy.
en.wikipedia.org

Jessica Aber - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
I started flying helis in the late 80's not an armchair pilot, stopped flying about 15 yrs ago.

I am aware of autorotation and the continual practice of that in training.

I am aware of the bell teetering heads as well, as I have always thought they are an accident waiting to happen.

Opps there I go again giving an opinion.

Regards,
 
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The Bell Teetering head is a much simpler rotor design. Fewer hinges needed, therefore fewer points of failure. Automatically adjusts for lead/lag, too.

Also, note the video of the mast assembly being recovered pretty much intact. Looks like the blades broke, not the hub or mast. And I suspect that they broke on impact with the water.
 
Never a good thing to say a "much simpler rotor design" for a rotor head.

It is an old head design going back to the 1940's.

Regards,
 
tigertank13 said:
The Jesus nut was loose.
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That is not consistent with the way the helo came apart.

Look at the picture, the whole damn transmission and rotor mast came out on the bulkhead it bolts to, IN ONE PIECE.

If the Jesus nut came off, the rotor head would have come off the mast.


Halcyon66 said:
Never a good thing to say a "much simpler rotor design" for a rotor head.

It is an old head design going back to the 1940's.
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Yes it is an old design. That needs about 40% fewer parts than a 2-bladed rotor that isn't a teetering design. Fewer things to maintain, fewer points of failure, cheaper to make. There's a reason the Apache X rotor is a pair of teetering hubs in a stack, rather than a single 4-bladed hub!
 
The Apache uses strap packs, just like the old 369 which allows for lead/lag, flapping and feathering. Also gets rid of the bearings.

TM-1-1520-238-23P-1_829_1.jpg


Regards,
 
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Scott Kenny said:
Yes it is an old design. That needs about 40% fewer parts than a 2-bladed rotor that isn't a teetering design. Fewer things to maintain, fewer points of failure, cheaper to make. There's a reason the Apache X rotor is a pair of teetering hubs in a stack, rather than a single 4-bladed hub!
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Been bugging me all day, you're defending the 206 main rotor and then you say there is a reason for Apache's 4 bladed tail rotor?

Scott Kenny said:
There's a reason the Apache X rotor is a pair of teetering hubs in a stack, rather than a single 4-bladed hub!
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Yes, the reason is the Apache has a 4 blade, 55 degree offset tail rotor layout with delta 3 offset to reduce harmonics and sound signature, what exactly does that have with the 206 main rotor head?

I now realise that I have been debating with cut and paste.

Your comments regarding clutch, auto's and the like are just out of the catalog.

Watching auto training on YouTube is nothing like losing a TR, the only actual training is actually losing a TR.

Regards,
 
www.flightglobal.com

FAA revokes New York Helicopter’s certificate after company fired operations chief

The Federal Aviation Administration has yanked the operating certificate held by New York Helicopter, the firm that operated the Bell 206 L-4 that crashed into the Hudson River on 6 April, killing all six people aboard.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

TLDR:
FAA rings New York Helicopter Chief of Operations asking him to voluntarily suspend flight ops.
Chief of Ops emails FAA 30 mins later agreeing.
CEO emails FAA 16 minutes later saying Chief of Operations no longer works for the company and they're continuing flying.
FAA yanks New York Helicopter's Air Operators Certificate

*headdesk*
 
DWG said:
www.flightglobal.com

FAA revokes New York Helicopter’s certificate after company fired operations chief

The Federal Aviation Administration has yanked the operating certificate held by New York Helicopter, the firm that operated the Bell 206 L-4 that crashed into the Hudson River on 6 April, killing all six people aboard.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

TLDR:
FAA rings New York Helicopter Chief of Operations asking him to voluntarily suspend flight ops.
Chief of Ops emails FAA 30 mins later agreeing.
CEO emails FAA 16 minutes later saying Chief of Operations no longer works for the company and they're continuing flying.
FAA yanks New York Helicopter's Air Operators Certificate

*headdesk*
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I thought Pilot Flying at time of Accident was the CEO?

Edit: That was some bad information.
 
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Interesting point in the vid of why the tail boom could have been sheared off, should have thought of that.

Hey but what do I know.

Regards,
 
Scott Kenny said:
I thought Pilot Flying at time of Accident was the CEO?
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So, if CEO was killed in the crash, who TF was using the CEO's email to piss off the FAA and get their Air Operations Certificate yanked?

The phone call and emails happened 3 days after the crash (less than 72 hours total), and basically at start of business Monday.

Edit1: phone call/emails happened Sunday, less than 24hrs after the crash.
Edit2: CEO was not flying. CEO is a f*ing idiot who didn't know that the company's Air Operations Certificate requires a Director of Operations and a Director of Maintenance as positions in the organization, both of which have training and licensing requirements and so take several months to replace. No D.Ops? No operations at all!
 
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