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Hello and good day to everyone.
This thread was created in order to gain info about the new Italian army MBT and IFV projects currently in development.
Background: Since 2023, Italy started to look for new solutions for modernize it's armored compartments. The program aim to acquire two type (with a lot of subvariants) of new veichles, an MBT, as a gap filler to be fielded alongside the upgraded Ariete AMV (C2/C3) until next gen design (Mainly referring at the Franco German MGCS) won't be ready and a new IFV class (AICS programme, later renamed A2CS), for replace the good but old dardo ifv and the very old M113 and VCC1/2 apc and general porpouse veichles. What were the Initial candidates Is not very clear, but the It was rumored about the followings:
- M1 Abrams (unknown version and only rumored)
-Merkava (the possibility was supported only by a single newspaper, (wich was many times referred as personal bias of the administrator) so I will leave It as a "not a very likely choice")
- K2 (rumored, but never confirmed)
- Leo 2A7 AV (actual candidate)
- Leo 2A8 (actual candidate)
While for the IFV programme, the confirmed competitors were:
- KF41 Lynx
- Consorzio Iveco-Oto Melara (CIO) proposal
- Leonardo-KNDS proposal
- CV90 MKIV
- Tracked Boxer
- Redback (only at the end of the competition)
For the MBT, the Initial choice was pretty obvious, as the only two tanks were the German Leopards as the Italian army was only looking for Europeans solutions. Indeed, the Leopard 2A8 was ordered some months later after the announcement of the programme. The Italian army wanted a modified version with various Italian parts made by Leonardo (optics, FCS, remote turret, radios, other internal parts, and under license cannon, with maiby some small changes) and the tanks would have been produced locally inside Oto Melara facilities.
While for the IFV, initially none of the candidates were confirmed, even when the Initial agreement with KNDS looked stable.
After One year, some non apparent problems started to show up between Leonardo and KNDS, because the German Company didn't wanted to let Italy modify theyr tank and they even rejected local production. Leonardo declared these conditions unacceptable and started to look for another partner that could accept Italian requirments, burying the Leopard 2A8 IT. With the cancellation of the Leo2A8 IT, the KNDS-Leonardo IFV falled apart immediatly. The other German defence giant, Rheinmetall, who was looking at the events from the corner, contacted Leonardo and the Italian Army offering what KNDS denied. Some Months later an agreement was signed between the two companies for develop a family of new platform based on the new KF51 Panthet MBT and on the KF41 Lynx. The official agreement will be signed in September 2024, with the delivery of the first units within 24/36 months After the agreement (like what was done with Hungary).
So what do we know today about these new units?
IMBT: the IMBT (Italian Main Battle Tank) Is the new Italian MBT derivated from the German Panther. What do we know about It for now? Unfortunatly not much, If nothing at all, since the name Is the only informations revealed. The Italian army ordered a total of 274 units, 132 in the combat version and 142 in the recovery/supply/utility versions.
A2CS: The A2CS programme will be a family of veichles based on an Italian KF41 Lynx derivates. More info about this veichles are know compared to the IMBT.
The Italian army Plan to acquire a total of 1100 units for replace all the older APC and IFV as alredy stated. Some times ago the Italian army published a slide wich include all the versions that Italy will get:
Combat: Classic IFV version with a missile-less turret with only the gun
Esplorante Da 120 mm: a light tank version equipped with a 120 mm turret (probably the Hitfact MK2)
Fire Support: unknown version
Posto Comando: a turret-less command veichle
Contro Carri: anty tank version, with a full turret armed with a cannon and atgm
Guastatori: Anty mine veichle
Posto munizione: ammo carrier
Mortaio Pesante: A variant equipped with an Heavy mortar
Anti Drone: An anty drone version (confirmed by RID that It Will use the Skynex 35 mm cannon and Will probably field the new VSHORAD by MBDA Italia)
Porta Feriti: a variant for recovery wounded soldiers
Combat Esplorante: Unknown version
Scuola Guida: a variant used for train the crews
ACRT: a combat variant equipped with a dozer
Mortaio Medio: a variant equipped with a medium mortar
(I Will also post some of the new diagramms and old renders of failed proposal in the comments and note that most of the renders used by the Italian army are mainly placeolders)
This thread was created in order to gain info about the new Italian army MBT and IFV projects currently in development.
Background: Since 2023, Italy started to look for new solutions for modernize it's armored compartments. The program aim to acquire two type (with a lot of subvariants) of new veichles, an MBT, as a gap filler to be fielded alongside the upgraded Ariete AMV (C2/C3) until next gen design (Mainly referring at the Franco German MGCS) won't be ready and a new IFV class (AICS programme, later renamed A2CS), for replace the good but old dardo ifv and the very old M113 and VCC1/2 apc and general porpouse veichles. What were the Initial candidates Is not very clear, but the It was rumored about the followings:
- M1 Abrams (unknown version and only rumored)
-Merkava (the possibility was supported only by a single newspaper, (wich was many times referred as personal bias of the administrator) so I will leave It as a "not a very likely choice")
- K2 (rumored, but never confirmed)
- Leo 2A7 AV (actual candidate)
- Leo 2A8 (actual candidate)
While for the IFV programme, the confirmed competitors were:
- KF41 Lynx
- Consorzio Iveco-Oto Melara (CIO) proposal
- Leonardo-KNDS proposal
- CV90 MKIV
- Tracked Boxer
- Redback (only at the end of the competition)
For the MBT, the Initial choice was pretty obvious, as the only two tanks were the German Leopards as the Italian army was only looking for Europeans solutions. Indeed, the Leopard 2A8 was ordered some months later after the announcement of the programme. The Italian army wanted a modified version with various Italian parts made by Leonardo (optics, FCS, remote turret, radios, other internal parts, and under license cannon, with maiby some small changes) and the tanks would have been produced locally inside Oto Melara facilities.
While for the IFV, initially none of the candidates were confirmed, even when the Initial agreement with KNDS looked stable.
After One year, some non apparent problems started to show up between Leonardo and KNDS, because the German Company didn't wanted to let Italy modify theyr tank and they even rejected local production. Leonardo declared these conditions unacceptable and started to look for another partner that could accept Italian requirments, burying the Leopard 2A8 IT. With the cancellation of the Leo2A8 IT, the KNDS-Leonardo IFV falled apart immediatly. The other German defence giant, Rheinmetall, who was looking at the events from the corner, contacted Leonardo and the Italian Army offering what KNDS denied. Some Months later an agreement was signed between the two companies for develop a family of new platform based on the new KF51 Panthet MBT and on the KF41 Lynx. The official agreement will be signed in September 2024, with the delivery of the first units within 24/36 months After the agreement (like what was done with Hungary).
So what do we know today about these new units?
IMBT: the IMBT (Italian Main Battle Tank) Is the new Italian MBT derivated from the German Panther. What do we know about It for now? Unfortunatly not much, If nothing at all, since the name Is the only informations revealed. The Italian army ordered a total of 274 units, 132 in the combat version and 142 in the recovery/supply/utility versions.
A2CS: The A2CS programme will be a family of veichles based on an Italian KF41 Lynx derivates. More info about this veichles are know compared to the IMBT.
The Italian army Plan to acquire a total of 1100 units for replace all the older APC and IFV as alredy stated. Some times ago the Italian army published a slide wich include all the versions that Italy will get:
Combat: Classic IFV version with a missile-less turret with only the gun
Esplorante Da 120 mm: a light tank version equipped with a 120 mm turret (probably the Hitfact MK2)
Fire Support: unknown version
Posto Comando: a turret-less command veichle
Contro Carri: anty tank version, with a full turret armed with a cannon and atgm
Guastatori: Anty mine veichle
Posto munizione: ammo carrier
Mortaio Pesante: A variant equipped with an Heavy mortar
Anti Drone: An anty drone version (confirmed by RID that It Will use the Skynex 35 mm cannon and Will probably field the new VSHORAD by MBDA Italia)
Porta Feriti: a variant for recovery wounded soldiers
Combat Esplorante: Unknown version
Scuola Guida: a variant used for train the crews
ACRT: a combat variant equipped with a dozer
Mortaio Medio: a variant equipped with a medium mortar
(I Will also post some of the new diagramms and old renders of failed proposal in the comments and note that most of the renders used by the Italian army are mainly placeolders)
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