Kaiserliche Marine - Imperial German Navy Ship Plans/Discussion

Invenio doesn't allow you to link directly, i provide the file name for those who are familiar with the archives.
RM 3/24162 "Entwürfe für den "Gr. Kreuzer 1914"
 
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Quick update.

I recalled that I had downloaded a bunch of WWI Kaiserliche Marine ship plans. Not too much is available, but it's there. This not the most recent plans, but what was available a few months ago that I had on-hand. They have now been uploaded.

They include plans for:
- Mackensen-class Battlecruiser
- Scharnhorst-class Armored Cruiser
- Yorck-class Armored Cruiser
- Bayern-class Battleship
- Coln-class Light Cruiser
- Derfflinger-class Battlecruiser
- Ersatz Yorck-class Battlecruiser
- Konig-class Battleships
- Konigsberg-class Light Cruiser
- Madgeburg-class Light Cruiser
- Konig-class Battleships
- Moltke-class Battlecruiser

And a few others.
 
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Both Bayern half-sisters Sachsen and Württemberg have also been digitalized, you can at least see their machinery layout, armor deck, turrets, upper deck etc, though i haven't able to find their diesel engines on the hull yet to compares with Baden and Bayern.
Schlachtschiff O
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The suppose schlachtschiff "O" is schlachtschiff "G" hull btw given the plan name.
 
From "German export designs from private shipyards", here's probably the characteristics of pre-design battleship Salamis, if anyone can decrypt the rest i will very appreciated, according to other texts German call them "panzerkreuzer" (Armored cruiser equivalent term to British "battlecruiser").
 

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RM_3_1097_0341.jpg RM_3_1097_0342.jpg
Country in the lists ranging from Greece (finalized Salamis), Russia (AG Vulcan built two light cruisers, with their engines and machinery), Austro-Hungarian? (looks like a 40000t floating dock), Argentina (4 large torpedo boats), Norway, Dutch (4 small torpedo boats), Japan (no clue, but it mentioned diesel, possibly diesel engines).
 
alexi said:
View attachment 731534View attachment 731535
Country in the lists ranging from Greece (finalized Salamis), Russia (AG Vulcan built two light cruisers, with their engines and machinery), Austro-Hungarian? (looks like a 40000t floating dock), Argentina (4 large torpedo boats), Norway, Dutch (4 small torpedo boats), Japan (no clue, but it mentioned diesel, possibly diesel engines).
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Alexi, what is the exact source for both scans? The four torpedoboats mentioned to be built by the Vulkanwerft, Stettin on account of the Netherlands were never delivered. In Dutch service they would become the Z1-4. Instead all four were commissioned in the German navy as V105-108 and three survived the First World War. V10 became Polish Mazur, V106 handed over to Brazil and sold to England, broken up in 1920?, V107 sunk after hitting a mine on 8 May 1915 and V108 became Polish Kaszub. The Dutch shipyards Nederlandsche Scheepsbouw Mij, Amsterdam laid down in 1915 built as replacement the Z1-4.
 
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alexi said:
From "German export designs from private shipyards", here's probably the characteristics of pre-design battleship Salamis, if anyone can decrypt the rest i will very appreciated, according to other texts German call them "panzerkreuzer" (Armored cruiser equivalent term to British "battlecruise
alexi said:
From "German export designs from private shipyards", here's probably the characteristics of pre-design battleship Salamis, if anyone can decrypt the rest i will very appreciated, according to other texts German call them "panzerkreuzer" (Armored cruiser equivalent term to British "battlecruiser").
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Alexi what is the correct source for both scan?
The text is dealing with the Salamis called a panzerkreuzer.
Lenght over all 144 metres.
Beam 22 metres,
Depth in hold (?) 12,1 metres
Draught 7,43 metres
displacement 13,100 tons
sped 21.5 knots
Building time 24 months
3x2-14cm L/45 (turrets)
8-6 cm L/45 casemates
8-3cm L/50 on aufbauten, rough translation of aufbau=construction
4-3,7cm
Bethelem Co delivered guns?
Remaing text I did not read no time, is dealing with the armour belt =fore 100-center 230-aft 80mm
casemates 150mm
gun turrets 200 mm
conning tower 225 mm
armour delivered by Bethlehem Co?
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Alexi what is the correct source for both scans
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RM 3/1097 (the scan numbers attached in the image, pg 341 and 342 for the export tables) and thank you for the decryption.
 
@Roodbaard1958!
3x2-14cm L/45 (turrets)
8-6 cm L/45 casemates
8-3cm L/50 on aufbauten, rough translation of aufbau=construction
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These calibers are in inches, not centimetres. So, that will be 3×2 356-mm/45, 8× 152-mm/50, and 8× 76-mm/50. The only caliber given in centimetres is the last one, 3,7-cm — these are, most likely, saluting guns.

P.S. How the hell does one quote/reply to a post which is entirely a quote itself?... Maybe my browser is too old, but normal quoting just doesn't work for me.
 
00-PureEvil-00 said:
@Roodbaard1958!

These calibers are in inches, not centimetres. So, that will be 3×2 356-mm/45, 8× 152-mm/50, and 8× 76-mm/50. The only caliber given in centimetres is the last one, 3,7-cm — these are, most likely, saluting guns.

P.S. How the hell does one quote/reply to a post which is entirely a quote itself?... Maybe my browser is too old, but normal quoting just doesn't work for me.
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Well done. As memory serves, measurements done on German plans are also in Imperial. Weird, as I had thought they'd converted entirely to metric decades before.

I just use the Reply function. I suspect that would work?
 
Data tables of armored cruiser "E" or "Grosse Kreuzer 1906" (aka SMS Blücher), there's some interesting bit about her preliminaries from other pages but i can't read since most these are hand writing, note "D.T" mean double turret and "E.T" mean single turret.
RM_3_357_0331.jpg
Note both E6 and E7 have 17cm gun secondaries.
 
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alexi said:
Data tables of armored cruiser "E" or "Grosse Kreuzer 1906" (aka SMS Blücher), there's some interesting bit about her preliminaries from other pages but i can't read since most these are hand writing, note "D.T" mean double turret and "E.T" mean single turret.
View attachment 732799
Note both E6 and E7 have 17cm gun secondaries.
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Alexi, what is the corrrect source for this scan?
 
Unrelated, I found a couple of improved Deustchland-class pre-dreadnought plans from RM 3 some months ago but never post here, these are the part of 1906 naval programs presumably. There are no data on hull dimensions (except Projekt IX haven't read it yet), only design requirements at 16000 tons and top speed of 19 knots. Total of 10 projects (Projekt I - X), they only have above/top view of the hull plans sadly. Here's the all-big gun projects, the rest are mixed caliber with 28cm, 24cm, 21cm, 19cm and 17cm types.

"Projekt I" - 6x28cm/L40 (3x2), 8x17cm and 24x8.8cm in casemate.
"Projekt II" - 6x28cm/L40 (2x2, 2x1), 4x21cm (4x1) and 24x8.8cm in deck mounts and casemate.
"Projekt III" - 10x28cm/L40 (2x2, 2x1 in turrets and 4x1 in casemate) and 24x8.8cm in deck mounts and casemate.
"Projekt VI" - 12x28cm/L40 (4x2 in turrets, 4x1 in casemate) and 24x8.8cm in deck mounts and casemate.
One notable mixed caliber pre-dreadnought type was "Projekt IX" have 2x2 28cm but armed to the teeth with 16x21cm in twin turrets!one can be describe as "German Lord Nelson".
 

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alexi said:
Unrelated, I found a couple of improved Deustchland-class pre-dreadnought plans from RM 3 some months ago but never post here, these are the part of 1906 naval programs presumably. There are no data on hull dimensions (except Projekt IX haven't read it yet), only design requirements at 16000 tons and top speed of 19 knots. Total of 10 projects (Projekt I - X), they only have above/top view of the hull plans sadly. Here's the all-big gun projects, the rest are mixed caliber with 28cm, 24cm, 21cm, 19cm and 17cm types.

"Projekt I" - 6x28cm/L40 (3x2), 8x17cm and 24x8.8cm in casemate.
"Projekt II" - 6x28cm/L40 (2x2, 2x1), 4x21cm (4x1) and 24x8.8cm in deck mounts and casemate.
"Projekt III" - 10x28cm/L40 (2x2, 2x1 in turrets and 4x1 in casemate) and 24x8.8cm in deck mounts and casemate.
"Projekt VI" - 12x28cm/L40 (4x2 in turrets, 4x1 in casemate) and 24x8.8cm in deck mounts and casemate.
One notable mixed caliber pre-dreadnought type was "Projekt IX" have 2x2 28cm but armed to the teeth with 16x21cm in twin turrets!one can be describe as "German Lord Nelson".
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Hi, Alexi,

Can you provide the exact document number? According to your description, these designs do not seem to belong to any "official design history" - neither the research of D.Nottelmann or A.Grießmer, nor the Kurrent font files that have been digitized. When the discussion about rises to 16,000 tons displacement, the turret used in the design is no longer an old design (L/40, although L/45 was still called Drh.L. C/01 at the time). Judging from the more "Italian" secondary armament of P.IX, it is possible that it was a study directed by Wilhelm II.
 
alexi said:
View attachment 731534View attachment 731535
Country in the lists ranging from Greece (finalized Salamis), Russia (AG Vulcan built two light cruisers, with their engines and machinery), Austro-Hungarian? (looks like a 40000t floating dock), Argentina (4 large torpedo boats), Norway, Dutch (4 small torpedo boats), Japan (no clue, but it mentioned diesel, possibly diesel engines).
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I hope I can provide some help.

1. In this table, Vulcan built for Russia the turbine equipments (Turbinenanlagen) for two torpedo boats and a cruiser, not the ships themselves - the latter later gave rise to the proposal to build a new mine cruiser (i.e. SMS Brummer); Schichau's shipyard in Danzig was responsible for two new small cruisers (the future Pillau class), and its shipyard in Elbing was responsible for their machinery equipment;

2. To be precise, what was built for Argentina was a torpedo boat destroyer (Torpedozerstörer), which may not be the same as the "official" large torpedo boat in terms of reference relationship;

3. What Vulcan built for Japan was a DC adjustable transformer (Unisteuerbaren Transformator für Dieselmaschine eines Zerstörers) for the diesel machine (probably generator) of a destroyer, not built a diesel engine; this destroyer was built in Yarrow (der bei Yarrow im Bau ist).

I'm currently writing about Tirpitz Fleet Law and the Wilhelm II Fast battleship race, and I'll try to help you out when I have some free time.
 
Some pages from a book I copied from some years ago in my then local Reference Library:
Deutsche Grosskampshiffe 1915-1918, Sonderausgabe: Die Entwicklung der Typenfrage im Ersten Weltkrieg. Mit Schiffstypen-Darstellungen. By Friedrich Forstmeier and Siegfried Breyer.

Apologies for relatively poor quality but it was in the days before Scanners and it was a 'wet paper' type photocopier/xerox machine.
 

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T.Tivan said:
Greetings. Perhaps this document will be of interest to the community.
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Very interesting sir, do you have the rest? since not many of them have been scanned on invenio yet. Also mirrored tripod mast? i remember one of the GK-series (Grossekreuzer) have them and there are specs under "L8". (235m in length, 31m beam and 9m draft, 100k horsepower?) also different turrets placement compare to L2 and L21a.
 
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alexi said:
Very interesting sir, do you have the rest? since not many of them have been scanned on invenio yet. Also mirrored tripod mast? i remember one of the GK-series (Grossekreuzer) have them and there are specs under "L8". (235m in length, 31m beam and 9m draft, 100k horsepower?) also different turrets placement compare to L2 and L21a.
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"L 8" is the only mention of the project, without the title of the document.
 
It's likely one of the missing links between L1-3 series and L20-24a series, i recalled there are mentions of some 1916 battleship designs with either 10 or 12 guns (mixed with twin and quad) to match Q.E-class, hope this document will be scanned at one point, it provided studies of German late-war capital ships with three-gun turrets and quadruple turrets.
Untitled.png
 
alexi said:
It's likely one of the missing links between L1-3 series and L20-24a series, i recalled there are mentions of some 1916 battleship designs with either 10 or 12 guns (mixed with twin and quad) to match Q.E-class, hope this document will be scanned at one point, it provided studies of German late-war capital ships with three-gun turrets and quadruple turrets.
View attachment 772233
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Alexi, I assume that the fully scanned document will someday be posted for review if the owner deems it possible.
 
Is there a mechanism whereby you can request that the Bundesarchiv digitize a particular drawing that they have a catalog listing for? At the U.S. National Archives you can email them and they'll accommodate the request if they can (although often they say that the paper is too fragile to scan).
 
Does anyone have any information (such weight, range, etc) regarding the 75 cm torpedo that was being developed by Junkers that was mentioned in Friedman's Naval Weapons of World War I?
 
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