USAF/USN 6th Gen Fighters - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS News & Analysis [2008- 2025]

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It probably is, all the other aircraft are legit. Could just be the concept demonstrator and not the final product.
 
Interesting designs for the exhausts for the B-21 TomcatVIP, that is if what the exhausts eventually will look like.
 
FighterJock said:
Interesting designs for the exhausts for the B-21 TomcatVIP, that is if what the exhausts eventually will look like.
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I wouldn't put much to that detail, it's obviously not an embroidery artifact but it's also an embroidery item. May just be trying to represent some shape via color change.
 
I’m too lazy to go back through the whole thread nor do I want to reignite the “a demonstrator already flew” debate but does anyone want give informed speculation on when we might see one?

Soon after the B-21 takes flight would put a bit of stress on our adversaries.
 
bobbymike said:
I’m too lazy to go back through the whole thread nor do I want to reignite the “a demonstrator already flew” debate but does anyone want give informed speculation on when we might see one?

Soon after the B-21 takes flight would put a bit of stress on our adversaries.
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USAF is planning a major award in '24, we'll see something.
 
Moose said:
USAF is planning a major award in '24, we'll see something.
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Unless the various companies have been doing a lot of work on their own dime, the USAF NGAD contest is looking a lot like the F-15 contest: paper studies and maybe a few mockups, then contract award to the winner. No fly-off phase like the ATF or JSF.
 
Moose said:
Their ATF and JSF concepts were generally not in the bleeding-edge and both resulted in wins, I'm not counting out LM until there's been an award (and appeal). That said, good to hear Boeing is being bold and it would be great if they were to win by shooting for the moon and hitting it.
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Exactly My take on it, I think ultimately we cant count either company out, but Lockheed should come out on top but thats my opinion.
 
Moose said:
Their ATF and JSF concepts were generally not in the bleeding-edge and both resulted in wins, I'm not counting out LM until there's been an award (and appeal). That said, good to hear Boeing is being bold and it would be great if they were to win by shooting for the moon and hitting it.
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I'm kinda expecting LockMart to win the USAF NGAD, Boeing the USN FAXX, and Northrop to be eyeballs deep in B21.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Unless the various companies have been doing a lot of work on their own dime, the USAF NGAD contest is looking a lot like the F-15 contest: paper studies and maybe a few mockups, then contract award to the winner. No fly-off phase like the ATF or JSF.
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www.defensenews.com

The US Air Force has built and flown a mysterious full-scale prototype of its future fighter jet

Does this give the Next Generation Air Dominance program more momentum, or does it open it up to more scrutiny?
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com

At least one full scale prototype was built. However, hard to imagine only one team building a full scale protoype and the other(s) not. This could be why NG pulled out. Realistically already having the B-21 was putting them on the backfoot, with how these sort of contracts are awarded.
 
Moose said:
Their ATF and JSF concepts were generally not in the bleeding-edge and both resulted in wins, I'm not counting out LM until there's been an award (and appeal). That said, good to hear Boeing is being bold and it would be great if they were to win by shooting for the moon and hitting it.
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Yeah. The final judgement by the USAF will take into account confidence in the ability of the contractor to deliver. Boeing's had some wins but also a lot of bad press lately.
 
paralay said:
There is only one problem, new engines of this dimension are not planned ;)

The differences between the land and sea versions of the fighter are in the minimum landing speed. Therefore, the land one is tailless with a 0.2 m2 RCS, and the sea one is a normal aerodynamic scheme with a stabilizer and therefore somewhat more noticeable. This is at least
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Isn't that a rather huge RCS by F22 and F35 standards? 0.2m^2 is a square 44.7cm on a side.
 
paralay said:
F-22 - 0,3 m2
F-35 - 0.4 m2
0.2 m2 is the level of an inconspicuous cruise missile, a very good result for a fighter weighing more than forty tons
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Those eagles have BIG eyeballs
 
paralay said:
F-22 - 0,3 m2
F-35 - 0.4 m2
0.2 m2 is the level of an inconspicuous cruise missile, a very good result for a fighter weighing more than forty tons
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This is not how radar cross sections work….
 
This is how the best air defense system in the world works. According to Russian scientists, a RSC below 0.3 m2 is not achievable for fifth-generation fighters, due to technical features

ЭОП - эффективная отражающая поверхность / effective reflective surface (RCS)
 

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paralay said:
This is how the best air defense system in the world works. According to Russian scientists, a RSC below 0.3 m2 is not achievable for fifth-generation fighters, due to technical features

ЭОП - эффективная отражающая поверхность / effective reflective surface (RCS)
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Wait. Russian scientists have access to Patriot data? Did they include all of the data from the great Kyiv turkey shoot in the beginning of this year?
 
Must admit I am still very skeptical of the tailless designs for a supersonic fighter aircraft but time will tell if that's the right direction.
 
Colonial-Marine said:
Must admit I am still very skeptical of the tailless designs for a supersonic fighter aircraft but time will tell if that's the right direction.
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Looking at the good results that came out of the X-36 program, I wonder if the demonstrator that was reportedly flown for NGAD was tasked with transonic and supersonic control validation of the tailless design.
 
flateric said:
defaeroreport.com

Defense & Aerospace Air Power Podcast [Nov 02, 23] Ep40: Ask Dr. Science - Defense & Aerospace Report

Whether high-end fighters, swarming drones, or hypersonic weapons, former Director of Defense Research and Engineering and former Air Force chief scientist Dr. Mark Lewis has been deep in the details. He joins us to look at how to turn the latest technologies into successful programs. And NGAD...
defaeroreport.com
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10:05

Much more capable recon aircraft than U2 has been delivered to AF from Skunk Works
 
paralay said:
This is how the best air defense system in the world works. According to Russian scientists, a RSC below 0.3 m2 is not achievable for fifth-generation fighters, due to technical features

ЭОП - эффективная отражающая поверхность / effective reflective surface (RCS)
Click to expand...
tumblr_m5xoycQgm81qd1uwa.jpg
 
Scott Kenny said:
Unless the various companies have been doing a lot of work on their own dime, the USAF NGAD contest is looking a lot like the F-15 contest: paper studies and maybe a few mockups, then contract award to the winner. No fly-off phase like the ATF or JSF.
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We have reporting claiming that all three original OEM's built and flew demonstrators so the AF did indeed evaluate things along the way.
 
How things change Scott Kenny, I remember reading about the ATF competition back in the mid 1980s. I think that with all the hacking with the JSF program the USAF have decided to go secret with the details of the NGAD, and quite right too.
 
bring_it_on said:
We have reporting claiming that all three original OEM's built and flew demonstrators so the AF did indeed evaluate things along the way.
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High chance that demonstrators in this case don't really mean full new planes(XF/YF), more like key technology demonstrators on something else. Otherwise, it's really hard to achieve.
 
Aerospace Nation: Mr. Thomas J. Lawhead, acting Deputy Chief of Staff, Air Force Futures
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So now we know that an X-plane did fly in the 2010s prior to NGAD, wonder why it was not revealed before now?
 
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