Paralay issues with moderators

[lancer21]

I would like to ask what happened to Paralay's posts. I noticed his very interesting replies in one of my recent topics vanished, and when i checked his profile, it seems ALL his posts are gone, replaced with just commas.

Thanks.

 

[F-2]

I can see about half of his posts and the other half are commas

You ok @paralay ?

 

[hagaricus]

A quick search appears to confirm that Paralay has indeed deleted his posts. A sad consequence of the current beliggerent situation. Rather sad, imho, as regardless of his political allegiance, his contributions were valuable and informative. A loss, to my way of thinking, as a diversity of opinions enriches us all.

 

[jeffb]

That's a shame. Hopefully he's ok and will return.

 

[paralay]

the moderator of the forum carefully deletes my posts so that he does not get tired, I decided to help him

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Well, I haven't deleted any of Paralay's messages except Ukraine war related ones, and none of those recently, so I can take a look at what happened.

I can see some off-topic messages on NGAD topic were deleted by GTX.

Editing your own posts is destructive and pointless, if you disagree with a moderation decision it's more useful to appeal to me. I can undelete posts easily, but if you vandalise your own posts, then its very hard to get them back.

 

[paralay]

at least twenty of my messages have been deleted, this clearly shows the presence of censorship and the lack of freedom of speech on the forum

 

[Archibald]

(facepalm)

 

[PlanesPictures]

najmenej dvadsať mojich správ bolo vymazaných, čo jasne poukazuje na prítomnosť cenzúry a nedostatok slobody prejavu na fóre

Chystam vizualizaciu Mig-41 s ramovym kridlom s dvoma pumovnicami a styrmi strelami Onyx. Ako logicke mi pripada ze by tam mohli byt aj dva Kindzaly. Rozmerovo podla tvojho nakresu mi to vychadza. Moze to tak byt?

 

[Avimimus]

the moderator of the forum carefully deletes my posts so that he does not get tired, I decided to help him

Try to perhaps leave your old stuff? Your contributions to this field (research on aircraft projects/designs) is legendary and should be preserved as a part of the history of this forum and community - regardless of the present admins or the present 'historical moment' we are living through.

 

[paralay]

Bohužiaľ, o MiG-41 nevieme absolútne nič

 

[paralay]

Try to perhaps leave your old stuff? Your contributions to this field (research on aircraft projects/designs) is legendary and should be preserved as a part of the history of this forum and community - regardless of the present admins or the present 'historical moment' we are living through.

This is no longer possible here. But you can search for it on my forum

Форум "Стелс машины" • Главная страница

Авиация, флот и космос - реальность и перспектива.

paralay.iboards.ru

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The

at least twenty of my messages have been deleted, this clearly shows the presence of censorship and the lack of freedom of speech on the forum

The only "censorship" I am aware of relates to posts related to the ongoing situation in the Ukraine. This is regrettable, but necessary, and I don't think has occurred recently.

There has to be some agreement to stick broadly to the topic of the forum and the individual threads, otherwise you would be free to discuss the works of Shakespeare in a topic on NGAD, which would clearly not make sense.

I would encourage moderators to be more restrained in deleting off topic posts if the topic diversion has ended, and to move off-topic posts to new topics unless they are of no value.

 

[paralay]

I am the administrator of the forum myself, so I understand the moderators' problems. Whenever possible, I always follow the topic and do not slip into the off-top. At the same time, since I represent Russia here, I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view. Learning to listen and understand each other is very important if we do not want to burn in the fire of a nuclear explosion.

 

[martinbayer]

Points of view need to be compatible with rational thought and objective facts.

 

[Archibald]

@martinbayer Vlad Putin (and his clique) really doesn't help on both points. I'm not sure he is even aware of the existence of such things - "rational... what ? " and "facts... wait, what was the adjective besides the word ?"

 

[hagaricus]

Good luck finding any objective facts these days. I'd far rather have a window into the "other side's" echo chamber than blindly swallow the content of my own. Apart from anything else, propaganda is in itself a fascinating art form, and the nature of the narrative being sold tells much about the mindset behind it

 

[Orionblamblam]

Learning to listen and understand each other is very important if we do not want to burn in the fire of a nuclear explosion.

If you want people to listen and understand, step one is not threatening to nuke them.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

My hope is that we all stick to technology more than operational and political matters.

 

[Orionblamblam]

My hope is that we all stick to technology more than operational and political matters.

Have you met humans? We can turns discussions of *kittens* into a political divide.

 

[Fluff]

My hope is that we all stick to technology more than operational and political matters.

Have you met humans? We can turns discussions of *kittens* into a political divide.

Ah, kittens.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Ah, kittens.

So what is that supposed to mean???

 

[sublight_]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

 

[Bounce]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

Given his knowledge/connections you realize he literally can't say anything otherwise publicly?

EDIT* I respect his knowledge and even though I don't agree with a lot of things he's posted I'd rather not him fall out of a window.

 

[sublight_]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

Given his knowledge/connections you realize he literally can't say anything otherwise publicly?

EDIT* I respect his knowledge and even though I don't agree with a lot of things he's posted I'd rather not him fall out of a window.

He was perfectly free to say "nothing". If he'd done that we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Welp, pretty sure *this* topic is gettin' locked up...

 

[jeffb]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

Please don't do that.

The Ukrainian's admitted that they shot down the Kh-22 and that it subsequently crashed into the apartment building. The official who admitted that was the case was subsequently fired, etc, etc. Try and keep in your mind that Ukraine and the west are putting out about 5 times the propaganda that Russia is putting out, especially given that many of the Russian media outlets have been censored in the west.

Look up what genocide actually means when you get a chance too, that term get thrown around far too liberally.

Welp, pretty sure *this* topic is gettin' locked up...

Because it's too easy to get emotionally attached to one side or the other. Russia has been painted as the bad guys for what 70+ years now, with a big ramp up following the 2016 US election.

If we could moderate our own emotional responses better it wouldn't be as big a problem. We could discuss whether Challenger 2's or Leopard 2's would fair any better than the Russian tanks in Ukraine's amazing mud for example, but as it is...

 

[sublight_]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

Please don't do that.

The Ukrainian's admitted that they shot down the Kh-22 and that it subsequently crashed into the apartment building. The official who admitted that was the case was subsequently fired, etc, etc. Try and keep in your mind that Ukraine and the west are putting out about 5 times the propaganda that Russia is putting out, especially given that many of the Russian media outlets have been censored in the west.

Look up what genocide actually means when you get a chance too, that term get thrown around far too liberally.

Welp, pretty sure *this* topic is gettin' locked up...

Because it's too easy to get emotionally attached to one side or the other. Russia has been painted as the bad guys for what 70+ years now, with a big ramp up following the 2016 US election.

If we could moderate our own emotional responses better it wouldn't be as big a problem. We could discuss whether Challenger 2's or Leopard 2's would fair any better than the Russian tanks in Ukraine's amazing mud for example, but as it is...

Gaslighting. The breakfast of losers.

 

[jeffb]

My hope is that we all stick to technology more than operational and political matters.

It's hard because much of the technological innovation is guided by the operational need which in turn is guided by the political need. Some bleed through is inevitable.

 

[jeffb]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

Please don't do that.

The Ukrainian's admitted that they shot down the Kh-22 and that it subsequently crashed into the apartment building. The official who admitted that was the case was subsequently fired, etc, etc. Try and keep in your mind that Ukraine and the west are putting out about 5 times the propaganda that Russia is putting out, especially given that many of the Russian media outlets have been censored in the west.

Look up what genocide actually means when you get a chance too, that term get thrown around far too liberally.

Welp, pretty sure *this* topic is gettin' locked up...

Because it's too easy to get emotionally attached to one side or the other. Russia has been painted as the bad guys for what 70+ years now, with a big ramp up following the 2016 US election.

If we could moderate our own emotional responses better it wouldn't be as big a problem. We could discuss whether Challenger 2's or Leopard 2's would fair any better than the Russian tanks in Ukraine's amazing mud for example, but as it is...

Gaslighting. The breakfast of losers.

Case in point.

 

[starviking]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

Please don't do that.

The Ukrainian's admitted that they shot down the Kh-22 and that it subsequently crashed into the apartment building. The official who admitted that was the case was subsequently fired, etc, etc. Try and keep in your mind that Ukraine and the west are putting out about 5 times the propaganda that Russia is putting out, especially given that many of the Russian media outlets have been censored in the west.

Look up what genocide actually means when you get a chance too, that term get thrown around far too liberally.

Point 1: It has been claimed that Ukraine doesn’t have anything capable of hitting a Kh-22. Hopefully persons knowledgable in such matters will illuminate the matter.

Point 2: This is just like the Provisional IRA back in the day: “Yes, we planted the bomb that killed all those civilians - but if the authorities had only heeded our (inaccurate) warnings there would have been no deaths”

Russia is firing inaccurate, unsuitable munitions at Ukraine’s power grid and assets in order to freeze the populace and thus force a surrender.

We have seen the Russian disregard for Ukrainian life in the media, in places like Bucha, and in all the villages, towns, and cities pounded flat by the Russians.

The Russian ruling class and their mouthpieces have stated many times that Ukraine is not a country, and that the Ukrainian identity needs to eliminated.

As genocide is the intentional destruction of a people, in whole or in part, I think your definition of genocide is way too narrow.

 

[Archibald]

Oh drats, that Futurama meme... I had forgotten it even existed. It is so hilarious. Devastating.

 

[Archibald]

Welp, pretty sure *this* topic is gettin' locked up...

Countdown to "nuking by mods"
...
three
...
two
...
one
...
zero
...
OBLIVION !
...
BOOOOOOOOOOM !!!

 

[Cannonfodder43]

The degeneration of this thread is something that saddens me but does not surprise me.

As someone who tries very hard to be as objective as I can about things going on, I wish I had the knowledge and skill to engage in discussions regarding the war, especially considering how much more complex it is than portrayed, nuance is always welcome in this age.

But I am inclined to say nobody here (myself included) really possess such skills and temperaments. We are coming at this from completely different views and outlooks and without mutual understanding or a modicum of respect for the others views. Were just talking past each other and letting emotions run away.

I very much agree with Paul that deleting or self-censoring virtually all posts not related to the current unpleasantness is very unproductive and harmful to all.

Your work, knowledge and insights are rare and invaluable Paralay. I have learned much from them and I would hate to see what appears to be a minor forum skirmish turn into a conflagration that damages all on this site.

 

[helmutkohl]

While I am not the moderator that deleted the posts in question

What I can say is that private forums like this, are not countries. So the Free Speech argument isn't really valid as we never argued to have them to begin with. This forum has always had rules that are enforced, and the admins strictly want to focus on aircraft discussion and news, to limit political discussions. Yes sometimes military affairs and politics are unavoidable, but it can be limited to a degree so that the threads don't shift entirely to politics.

I can tell you that the posts that were deleted, from my observation, were basically Russia vs US stuff that had no place in the NGAD section. They were justifiably deleted, just like how we do with all the France vs other country arguments we see in the Rafale thread, etc.

I also don't think there's a need to over-react and delete everything when your posts deleted by a mod. I've had my posts deleted by other mods, too, and I'm a mod. But I don't go back and delete everything Ive ever written.

 

[jeffb]

I am trying to convey to you the Russian point of view.

Yea, all that went out the window, we got Russians blowing up residential apartment buildings with a Kh-22. Genocide is not a "point of view".

Please don't do that.

The Ukrainian's admitted that they shot down the Kh-22 and that it subsequently crashed into the apartment building. The official who admitted that was the case was subsequently fired, etc, etc. Try and keep in your mind that Ukraine and the west are putting out about 5 times the propaganda that Russia is putting out, especially given that many of the Russian media outlets have been censored in the west.

Look up what genocide actually means when you get a chance too, that term get thrown around far too liberally.

Point 1: It has been claimed that Ukraine doesn’t have anything capable of hitting a Kh-22. Hopefully persons knowledgable in such matters will illuminate the matter.

Point 2: This is just like the Provisional IRA back in the day: “Yes, we planted the bomb that killed all those civilians - but if the authorities had only heeded our (inaccurate) warnings there would have been no deaths”

Russia is firing inaccurate, unsuitable munitions at Ukraine’s power grid and assets in order to freeze the populace and thus force a surrender.

We have seen the Russian disregard for Ukrainian life in the media, in places like Bucha, and in all the villages, towns, and cities pounded flat by the Russians.

The Russian ruling class and their mouthpieces have stated many times that Ukraine is not a country, and that the Ukrainian identity needs to eliminated.

As genocide is the intentional destruction of a people, in whole or in part, I think your definition of genocide is way too narrow.

There are counter arguments to all of these points.
Arguing any of them gets the thread locked.

Let's get back to Paralay's concerns.

 

[_Del_]

There are counter arguments to all of these points.
Arguing any of them gets the thread locked.

Correct. Any nuance provided in these topics is instantly "off-topic" and deleted, but users are free to write ridiculous things like the stuff you responded to and it will stay indefinitely or until someone responds and they need to mop it all up.

You can say anything you like, as long as it echoes the forum's predetermined narrative.

Case in point, that post still sits there despite subsequent moderator involvement in the thread.

That reflects exactly paralay's concern lol

 

[paralay]

There Is A Big Game Going On. the main goal is to force the parasite states (the countries with the largest public debt) to pay their debts. If this happens, then secondary goals (the destruction of Nazi Ukraine, the collapse of NATO, and so on) will be achieved automatically

 

[Orionblamblam]

the destruction of Nazi Ukraine...

There. Right there. Whenever *anybody* starts talking about "Nazis" as being an actual Present Day concern, I tune them and their arguments out. Might as well argue that the Enemy, whoever they are, are being run by the Whigs or the Confederate States or the Reptilians or some other group that no longer, or never did, exists.

Saying that the reason for the attack Ukraine is to get rid of Nazis is like saying the US nuked Japan in order to get rid of Kaiju or rabid zombie samurai. Can you find examples of Ukrainians larping as Nazis? Sure. But you can do the same for *Russians.* There have been neo-Nazi parades, and neo-Nazi politicians, in Russia within the 21st century. Is that insane? You betcha. But they exist... and the fact that there are Russians pretending to be "Nazis" is no good reason to attack Russia.

 

[Bounce]

Alright I'm done lol, it's a lost cause I'm sorry.