Indiana Jones 5

For me, the last Indiana Jones film was “the Last Crusade”. “Crystal Skull” was pushing it. Although I did like the way Indy and Marion got married in the end.

I have a feeling this 5th entry is going to be the worst in the series and will help kill the franchise.
 
The K2 said:
I have a feeling this 5th entry is going to be the worst in the series and will help kill the franchise.
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Setting aside the plot rumors, the trailer really doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. It's one thing to have dodgy CGI for some sort of fantastical element, but Indy On A Horse looked just wrong. And A Dude On A Horse is the sort of thing that you wouldn't tend to think of as needing CGI.

And Indy's line about not believing in magic... uuuuugh.
 
It reminds me a sort of mishmash among He-111 and a Siebel Si-204:

29031_rd.jpg
 
Maybe a He-111 was used for the shooting, then transformed in post production to look like a Si-204.
But I don't really see the point.
 
I spot two dorsal turrets, maybe the rear one should have a better line of sight....
 
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F.L. said:
But I don't really see the point.
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Maybe the story requires a tail gunner. Raiders of The Lost Ark needed a pusher aircraft for one of Indie's opponents to be mauled by -> hence bogus flying wing aircraft.
No twin-tail He 111 ever flew existed. Do not expect historical accuracy from Indiana Jones.
 
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Last weekend marked the one-year anniversary of the release of Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny at the 76th Cannes Film Festival on May 18, 2023.

I have mixed feelings about Dial of Destiny. The first half of the film started off awkward and uneven, but I enjoyed Indy, Helena, and Teddy’s adventures in the second half. But while I loved that the movie ended with Indy and Marion's reconciliation, I feel that there is something missing in the ending.

The biggest unanswered question of Dial of Destiny is whether Indy and Marion's family legacy would end with them, or if they actually have a secret grandchild who is the offspring of their deceased or missing son Mutt. My headcanon or theory is that during the Vietnam War, Mutt fathered a half-Vietnamese Amerasian child or bụi đời with a lover, but neither Mutt nor his parents would know about the kid before his death or disappearance in Vietnam. If Indiana Jones does get revisited with Expanded Universe materials set after Dial of Destiny, perhaps Indy and Marion meeting their long-lost grandchild could be a potential story.

Finally, I understand that Helena Shaw is a polarizing character in Dial of Destiny, but I actually do not hate her. I admit that I did not care for Helena in the first half, but she eventually grew on me in the second half. I believe that Helena was misused and underutilized by the film’s script which prevented Helena from reaching her potential as a fully-developed character. Nevertheless, I give props to actress Phoebe Waller-Bridge for working with what she was given as Helena Shaw.

Since Harrison Ford has announced that he is finished with Indiana Jones, Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s Helena Shaw could play a role in finding Indy and Marion’s grandchild. Despite the very distant possibility, I would not mind watching a Helena Shaw spin-off miniseries where she discovers Indy and Marion’s long-lost grandchild and helps their family become whole again.

What are your thoughts about Dial of Destiny? Is this the last we see of Indiana Jones, or do you think we will see Expanded Universe spin-off stories in the future? How do you think the Indiana Jones franchise should be revisited?
 
Happy Memorial Day 2024 to Mutt Williams and his fellow fallen and missing brothers-in-arms in the Vietnam War.

I am convinced that during the Vietnam War, Mutt fathered a half-Vietnamese Amerasian child or bụi đời with a lover, but neither Mutt nor his parents would know about the kid before his death or disappearance in Vietnam. If Indiana Jones does get revisited with Expanded Universe materials set after Dial of Destiny, perhaps Indy and Marion meeting their long-lost grandchild could be a potential story.

I would not mind watching a Helena Shaw spin-off miniseries where she discovers Indy and Marion’s long-lost grandchild and helps their family become whole again.
 
Indy 5 has been available for me to watch essentially for free and in hi-def for *months* and I haven't. The flagship "Star Trek" series is in its final season, freely available to me, and not only have I not watched a single episode of that season I've no desire to do so. There are multiple official "Star Wars" series available for me to freely watch, and I've not bothered and am largely uninterested.

If you'd told me 20 years ago that this would be the state of things, I would have had a damned hard time believing you, given how big a fan I was, how important these properties were to me. But they've been uglified.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Indy 5 has been available for me to watch essentially for free and in hi-def for *months* and I haven't. The flagship "Star Trek" series is in its final season, freely available to me, and not only have I not watched a single episode of that season I've no desire to do so. There are multiple official "Star Wars" series available for me to freely watch, and I've not bothered and am largely uninterested.

If you'd told me 20 years ago that this would be the state of things, I would have had a damned hard time believing you, given how big a fan I was, how important these properties were to me. But they've been uglified.
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The human mind needs new ideas, new experiences and new challenges to continue to exist, the system refuses to provide more fuel for our imagination... something typical of a gerontocracy of presidents, actors and ideologues who should have retired last century.
 
Happy Memorial Day 2024. Here's to Mutt Williams and his fellow fallen and missing brothers-in-arms in the Vietnam War:

I'm going there to see my Father
I'm going there, no more to roam
I’m only going over Jordan
I’m only going over home

I’m going home to see my Mother
And all my loved ones who’ve gone on
I’m only going over Jordan
I’m only going over home
 
Christopher Wang said:
I would not mind watching a Helena Shaw spin-off miniseries where she discovers Indy and Marion’s long-lost grandchild and helps their family become whole again.
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A probably better idea: an Indy spin off featuring a mature Mutt. Got his degree, missed Nam (too old), goes on to follow in his fathers career footsteps. At some point he has a nightmare where he'd died in Nam and his dad had turned into a broken-down wreck, getting dragged around by some wretched grrrrlboss. Calls his dad who laughs at the unfortunate nightmare, then Mutt gets on about the business of having a successful franchise where, like his father before him, he's an imperfect yet admirable guy that the male audience members want to be like and the female viewers want to be with.

Indy himself probably doesn't appear in the movies, except as an off-screen source of advice for Mutt. Occasional references made to how Indy and Marian are still happily married and living the good life and how Indy is well-respected and, apart from perhaps having recently lost an eye during some heroic daring-do, is still in good shape physically and emotionally.
 
Here are my theories on Mutt Williams’ military service during the Vietnam War:

Mutt Williams, USMC.png
From the dress uniform worn by Mutt in his photograph in Dial of Destiny, some viewers believed that Mutt may have served in the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS.

According to Indiana Jones: The Ultimate Guide (2008) by James Luceno, Mutt Williams was born in July 1938. The Apollo 11 Moon Landing featured in Dial of Destiny took place on July 16-24, 1969. Thus, Mutt would have been around 30 YEARS OLD at the time of his death or disappearance in Vietnam. Depending on his education and training, Mutt could have been a non-commissioned officer with the rank of SERGEANT (E-5) or STAFF SERGEANT (E-6). Or he could have been a commissioned officer with the rank of SECOND LIEUTENANT (O-1), FIRST LIEUTENANT (O-2), or CAPTAIN (O-3). It is possible Mutt could have had some prior foreign language knowledge of Vietnamese and French which he would have learned from his father Indy before his deployment to Vietnam.

As a Marine, Mutt would have served in the time period between the landing of the 9th Marine Expeditionary Brigade at Da Nang in March 1965 and the Apollo 11 Moon Landing of July 1969. He would have served in the I CORPS TACTICAL ZONE in the northern provinces of South Vietnam which included the cities of Quảng Trị, Huế, Da Nang, and Chu Lai. He would have served with either the 1st MARINE DIVISION around Da Nang or the 3rd MARINE DIVISION near the 17th Parallel Demilitarized Zone. He could have also been selected to serve in MARINE FORCE RECON. There is also the possibility that he could have served as a Marine Security Guard protecting the U.S. Embassy in Saigon.
Vietnam War (January 1, 1968).jpg

Mutt could have participated in the COMBINED ACTION PROGRAM which partnered a 13-man Marine rifle squad and a U.S. Navy Corpsman with a platoon of South Vietnamese Popular Force militia. He may have also participated in combined operations alongside the REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM MARINE DIVISION (“Sea Tigers”) and the REPUBLIC OF KOREA 2nd MARINE BRIGADE (“Blue Dragons”).

Sadly, Mutt could have died or disappeared during the 1968 TET OFFENSIVE which turned American public opinion against the Vietnam War. He could have fought in one of many battles of the Tet Offensive such as at Huế or Khe Sanh. It should be noted that the Tet Offensive occurred in three campaign phases: January thru March 1968; May thru June 1968; and August thru September 1968.

Finally, my favorite theory is that Mutt had a Vietnamese lover with whom he fathered a half-Vietnamese Amerasian child or bụi đời ("life of dust" or "dusty life"). Unfortunately, neither Mutt nor his parents would know about the kid before his death or disappearance in Vietnam. If Indiana Jones does get revisited with Expanded Universe spin-off stories set after Dial of Destiny, Indy and Marion meeting their long-lost grandchild who is the offspring of their son Mutt could be a potential story.

As a postscript, the VIETNAM VETERANS MEMORIAL WALL which would have featured Mutt Williams’ name alongside his fellow fallen brothers-in-arms was opened to the public on November 13, 1982, more than one year after the theatrical release of Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981).
Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall.jpeg
 
Today marks the 43rd Anniversary of the theatrical release of Raiders of the Lost Ark on June 12, 1981.

Do you think Dial of Destiny is the last we see of Indiana Jones, or do you believe we will see more Expanded Universe spin-off stories (e.g. books, comics, games, etc.) in the future?

For example, the upcoming Windows and Xbox game Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (2024) by Bethesda featuring Troy Baker voicing Indy shows how the franchise could potentially continue after Harrison Ford has retired from the role.
 
F.L. said:
Personally, the idea that would appeal most to me would be a series set in the golden age of Indiana Jones in my opinion : the 1930s. But I doubt it will happen.
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I agree that the 1930s were the Golden Age of Indiana Jones, especially The Last Crusade.

Personally, I prefer if Indy and Marion got closure for the death or disappearance of their son Mutt. I'm convinced that some time after Dial of Destiny circa 1970s thru 1980s, Indy and Marion will discover they have a long-lost grandchild who is Mutt's offspring conceived during the Vietnam War. And despite the polarizing reception towards Helena Shaw, I would not mind if Helena played a role in finding Indy and Marion's grandchild and helping their family become whole again.
 
*PROVE* to me that it was Indiana's hand that snatched his hat from the clothesline in the final scene and not that of one of his visitors.
 
Sometimes stories leave you guessing how the story ends. Not necessarily the worst ones.
 
The main problem with sequels and remakes acceptance is that auditory gets decades older and just moves from childhood/youth to old grumpy men phase. I was waiting and watching IJ 4 and 5 with as much interest I was waiting for local video saloon to get pirate copy of The Last Crusade back in '89.
 
F.L. said:
Personally, the idea that would appeal most to me would be a series set in the golden age of Indiana Jones in my opinion : the 1930s. But I doubt it will happen.
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It almost certainly *will* happen, you'll just need to wait until Indy enters the public domain. By that point there'll be *legions* of AI ready to pump out a few thousand hour long episodes of "The Middle Aged Indiana Jones Chronicles" every five minutes.
 
Some theories on Mutt Williams for Father’s Day:

As shown in the bookend scenes of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles (1992−1993), it is known that Indiana Jones had at least two grandchildren in 1993: Caroline and Spike. Now it is possible that some of Indy’s grandchildren are descended from other women that Indy had been with before he married Marion Ravenwood in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008). But it is also possible that at least one or two of Indy’s grandchildren might be Mutt’s offspring(s) whom Mutt fathered before his death or disappearance in the Vietnam War.

There are many possibilities on when Mutt could have sired an offspring. One possibility is that Mutt fathered a child with a high school or college fling before or after Kingdom of the Crystal Skull during the 1950s. Another possibility − and my favorite theory − is that Mutt had a Vietnamese lover with whom he fathered a half-Vietnamese Amerasian child or bụi đời ("life of dust" or "dusty life") during the Vietnam War in the 1960s. It is also possible that Mutt could have fathered more than one child with different lovers through the 1950s and 1960s. Sadly, it is likely that Mutt never knew about the existence of his kid(s) before his death or disappearance in Vietnam.

As I have explained earlier, I am convinced that some time after Dial of Destiny (2023) circa 1970s thru 1980s, Indy and Marion will discover they have a long-lost grandchild who is Mutt's offspring. If Indiana Jones gets revisited with Expanded Universe spin-off stories set after Dial of Destiny, Indy and Marion meeting their grandchild could be a potential story. The story could also involve Mutt’s children from different mothers actually meeting and the half-siblings bonding over their missing father and newly-found grandparents.

Either way, it would be fulfilling to see Indy and Marion find closure for losing Mutt and meet Mutt’s kid(s) so their family could become whole again.
 
MrPhantomMan said:
I think it should end here. I liked DoD; it wasn't amazing but it was entertaining enough.
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Why? Noone is forcing you to watch *anything*. Let the market decide on what to offer. And I just realized I'm starting to sound like a libertarian...
 
Christopher Wang said:
But it is also possible that at least one or two of Indy’s grandchildren might be Mutt’s offspring(s) whom Mutt fathered before his death or disappearance in the Vietnam War.
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There's no evidence Mutt disappeared or died in Nam. That's just a plot point put forward in a fan film that nobody considers canonical.
 
martinbayer said:
Why? Noone is forcing you to watch *anything*. Let the market decide on what to offer. And I just realized I'm starting to sound like a libertarian...
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I think because Harrison Ford is older than the Idol from Raiders at this point and not everything needs more sequels.
 
martinbayer said:
Why? Noone is forcing you to watch *anything*. Let the market decide on what to offer. And I just realized I'm starting to sound like a libertarian...
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Nothing wrong with sounding like a small-l libertarian. And part of the market deciding is providing reviews so people can know in advance what to spend their money on. "Product X is an unmitigated pile of festering horse squeezins'" is useful info to have if you trust the opinion-givers opinion.

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Note: one of the moderators edited the above message. Since I don't store every damned thing I type into permanent storage, I've no recollection of what the precise original text was.


Image1dc.png

So, ok, I'll play along: "I love and appreciate censorship in order to coddle the addlepated."
 
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MrPhantomMan said:
I think it should end here. I liked DoD; it wasn't amazing but it was entertaining enough.
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I liked Indy, Helena, and Teddy's adventures in the second half of Dial of Destiny.

But while I loved that the film ended with Indy and Marion's reunion and reconciliation, I feel that the ending is incomplete because it did not provide full closure for Indy and Marion losing their son Mutt. I strongly feel that the proper ending for Indy and Marion is if some time after Dial of Destiny (2023) circa 1970s thru 1980s, Indy and Marion meet their long-lost grandkid(s) who is the offspring(s) of their son Mutt and thus their family could become whole again.

I imagine that in the final scene of an Expanded Universe spin-off story (e.g. novels, comics, etc.), it would end in the 1980s with Indy, Marion, and their newly-discovered grandkid(s) visiting the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall where Mutt's name has been added.

Even though Harrison Ford has announced that he has retired from the role of Indiana Jones, the franchise could still continue with Expanded Universe spin-off stories such as novels, games, comics, television, and other forms of media. So maybe we could see more Indiana Jones stories outside the five-film series which do not require Harrison Ford to return as Indy. And however distant this possibility may be, I imagine Harrison Ford could make occasional surprise cameo appearances as Indy.
 
Christopher Wang said:
I liked Indy, Helena, and Teddy's adventures in the second half of Dial of Destiny.

But while I loved that the film ended with Indy and Marion's reunion and reconciliation, I feel that the ending is incomplete because it did not provide full closure for Indy and Marion losing their son Mutt. I strongly feel that the proper ending for Indy and Marion is if some time after Dial of Destiny (2023) circa 1970s thru 1980s, Indy and Marion meet their long-lost grandkid(s) who is the offspring(s) of their son Mutt and thus their family could become whole again.

I imagine that in the final scene of an Expanded Universe spin-off story (e.g. novels, comics, etc.), it would end in the 1980s with Indy, Marion, and their newly-discovered grandkid(s) visiting the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall where Mutt's name has been added.

Even though Harrison Ford has announced that he has retired from the role of Indiana Jones, the franchise could still continue with Expanded Universe spin-off stories such as novels, games, comics, television, and other forms of media. So maybe we could see more Indiana Jones stories outside the five-film series which do not require Harrison Ford to return as Indy. And however distant this possibility may be, I imagine Harrison Ford could make occasional surprise cameo appearances as Indy.
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You sound a lot like the studios at this point to be honest mate. In my opinion, there's no need to turn this into the Indiana Jones Expanded Universe and wring every single drop from it. Harrison Ford *is* Indiana Jones and Indiana Jones is Harrison Ford. Without him it's just another treasure hunting adventure. Look at the National Treasure TV show without Nic Cage- pretty average and it suffered for it.
 
MrPhantomMan said:
You sound a lot like the studios at this point to be honest mate. In my opinion, there's no need to turn this into the Indiana Jones Expanded Universe and wring every single drop from it. Harrison Ford *is* Indiana Jones and Indiana Jones is Harrison Ford. Without him it's just another treasure hunting adventure. Look at the National Treasure TV show without Nic Cage- pretty average and it suffered for it.
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I agree that the Indiana Jones franchise needs to end at some point without needlessly wringing every single drop from it. But I believe that Indy and Marion deserve an ending where they find closure for losing their son Mutt. That story could be told in novels, comics, games, or any other forms of media without requiring Harrison Ford to return onscreen as Indy. For what it is worth, I would not object to a Helena Shaw spin-off story where she finds Indy and Marion's long-lost grandchild − Mutt's offspring − and helps their family become whole again.
 
In real life, you will find endings that offer no closure at all.
For closure, I would suggest morality plays and fairy tales.
 
Arjen said:
In real life, you will find endings that offer no closure at all.
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Sadly, that is true.
Arjen said:
For closure, I would suggest morality plays and fairy tales.
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Fortunately, anything is possible in the adventurous and fantastical world of Indiana Jones, including Indy and Marion finding closure over losing Mutt through meeting their long-lost grandchild.
 

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