USMC Doctrine Changes

Very ironic, given the Army was busy dismembering its waterborne capabilities only a few short years ago.
 
This course is only for Recon Marines, who already have months of reconnaissance and fieldcraft training that overlaps with the scout sniper course - which is open to any infantry MOS.
 
At this point I am expecting SEALS to demo swimming up to submarines and sink them with limpet mines soon.

"Dispersed decisive subsurface naval close combat"
 
Fools and their money (and not infrequently, their lives) are soon parted.
 
Intuitively, if the door mechanism get jammed, it seems as if the landing would have to be interrupted, what would not happen if the door was to open differently (rotating downward with gravity assist).
 
Jimmo952 said:

I agree. This things appears to be a modern take on an LST.
Click to expand...

Sort of. This LAW concept is similar in size to the original LST(1) design, but factoring in the size growth of modern ships and equipment, it's more like an LSM. Which also fits the lack of covered cargo space, separate landing craft, and significant troop berthing.

TomcatViP said:
Intuitively, if the door mechanism get jammed, it seems as if the landing would have to be interrupted, what would not happen if the door was to open differently (rotating downward with gravity assist).
Click to expand...

If the bow door/visor rotated down, it would be under the bow ramp, and could interfere with it in shallow water. They almost universally swing up, presumably for just this reason.

Here is a very similar system on the Army's LSV-8, which is very similar in capability.


http://www.navsource.org/archives/30/10/30100802.jpg
 
Last edited:
I am not an expert obviously but reading you I understand that this has a different purpose than a landing barge.
 
TomcatViP said:
I am not an expert obviously but reading you I understand that this has a different purpose than a landing barge.
Click to expand...

TomS is right, they're very similar. The LSVs are 4,200 ton landing ships, this is 4,500 tons. The Austal might be a couple of knots faster maybe.
 
The LAW is ~4500 tons (full load, presumably) versus nearly 8000 tons for the De Soto County class. The LAW carries maybe 75 Marines, the LST almost 600 troops (albeit in terrible conditions). And the LST has most of its cargo covered in the tank deck, while the LAW is open. Basically the difference between a ship designed to carry a section of coast artillery and one meant to carry about a company of tanks (or amtracks) or a battalion of infantry.

You can see another big difference between an LST and the LAW. The LST shown here has a set of four floating pontoons (Mexeflote to the Brits) slung on the sides, which it could use to build an expedient pier for offloading. I don't see any suggestion that LAW will have that option, which raises a question to me about just how many beaches it will be able to use.
 
However, in a place like the Pacific and against China, LSTs could play a role, albeit a niche one, in the operations, or as a simple means of transport, such as a ferry.
 
At the risk of repeating myself the Marines in the US and the UK are increasingly having to justify their separate service status.
Unlike China and Russia, voters have no more appetite to watch bodybags draped in the Stars and Stripes or the Union Flag being brought home from another pointless war.
Stopping China in particular must be a job for its neighbours in the first instance.
 
uk 75 said:
At the risk of repeating myself the Marines in the US and the UK are increasingly having to justify their separate service status.
Unlike China and Russia, voters have no more appetite to watch bodybags draped in the Stars and Stripes or the Union Flag being brought home from another pointless war.
Stopping China in particular must be a job for its neighbours in the first instance.
Click to expand...
You don't fight a war just for survival but for maintaining your supremacy over a region. And that sometimes requires sacrifices that may seem too big for the short term, but thats what maintains the world in a way that is conducive to your identity.

The neighbours in the region do not have the size or integration to create a separate order of life for themselves. They have always relied over a greater power to set the rules and maintain peace by following that order.

If and when what you say goes from concept to reality, we'll see primary language of transmission change from english to mandarin in the region and probably nothing else will change. The question is, whether that is affordable to the west.
 
Bhurki The images of Afghanistan collapsing into the hands of the Taliban and the US and UK telling their nationals to leave reminds me of the ignominious helicopter evacuations in Cambodia and Vietnam in 1965.
Politicians have used up their credit with voters in the Democracies. Climate Change is the focus of the moment as Covid fades.
 
LAW seems like a hybrid between LCU and LST. Or larger version of the former, really. In terms of draft and cargo area, it seems closer to a very large LCU than an LST. It seems ill advised to not have at least a SeaRAM on it though. If the intended environment is the WestPac, which seems likely, it is hardly a permissive environment.

And personally I'd like to reiterate that if the entire goal of the USMC going forward is fire missiles at ships, then we should dispense with the USMC and just have more ships with missiles.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom