Kelly Johnson comment in June 1969....no Skunk Work black aircraft project worked being worked on

[greenmartian2017]

I was going through the latest NRO document releases, and this one caught my eye (and other Lockheed history people should take note).

Kelly Johnson had a visit with NRO head John L. McLucas on June 12, 1969. This paragraph I took notice of directly.

"Kelly Johnson is running out of business. For the first time in many years there is no airplane in his skunk works and he has to take the skunk works apart."

This is interesting as ISINGLASS was active, and that means that Lockheed was not working on a manned hypersonic vehicle in 1969. (But McDonnell Douglas and Boeing probably may have been.)

This probably was not including missiles or drones or satellite systems.

I don't know know how long this dearth of aircraft activity lasted.

If anyone knows more, please post your comments.

See the attached.

 

[rooster]

Wasnt that the same time he had to lay off engineers after the order came down to destroy the blackbird tooling and the cancellation of the f12? I would say it lasted until Ben Rich and the 117 came along and then Lockheed went into a phase of rapid expansion.

 

[Michel Van]

The F-12 program ended in January 1968.

It make sense because 93 Mach 3 interceptors are over the top and cost extremely to maintain, for there intended role...

 

[edwest4]

This is interesting but in any compartmentalized program, those outside of a small circle do not have a need to know. I read about one project manager who said that the number of people who should know would fit in a medium-sized sedan. Reading other sources that cover the year in question, aside from landing on the moon, the Cold War was continuing to accelerate. I think it possible that Mr. Johnson was told, or decided based on previous experience, to leave the NRO in the dark and out of the loop. After all, any project could be attributed to work by some other company should it be revealed at a later date.

 

[sienar]

This is interesting but in any compartmentalized program, those outside of a small circle do not have a need to know. I read about one project manager who said that the number of people who should know would fit in a medium-sized sedan. Reading other sources that cover the year in question, aside from landing on the moon, the Cold War was continuing to accelerate. I think it possible that Mr. Johnson was told, or decided based on previous experience, to leave the NRO in the dark and out of the loop. After all, any project could be attributed to work by some other company should it be revealed at a later date.

It could have also been a "we need contracts to keep the doors open" sort of statement.

 

[Archibald]

Isinglass was dead by June 1969. It was mostly supported by Schriever, who was long gone by then.

This probably was not including missiles or drones or satellite systems.

Indeed. The D-21 was not cancelled until July 23, 1971. As for satellites - after kicking out General Electric KH-7, Lockheed ruled the Key Holes, with the Agena birds in full strength, and the coming KH-9 HEXAGON.

the real catastrophic year for Lockheed was 1971. Remarquably, every single cutting edge wonder they had worked on, bite the dust.
C-5A, Tristar, Cheyenne, D-21 + SR-71 family production curtailed - it certainly hurt. A lot.

few people realize how 1971 was horror year & perfect sh*tstorm for US aerospace.

April 1971, SST dead, Boeing screwed.

July 1971, Lockheed near bankruptcy

October 1971 - Shuttle very close brush with death, Rockwell very nearly screwed, too.

Nixon was running crazy, as he needed California aerospace worker jobs to get reelected the next year... even against such a lame duck as McGovern.

 

[apparition13]

A "lame duck" is a politician who cannot (or is not) running for reelection. Presidents in their second terms are lame ducks. Since McGovern wasn't president, let alone a second term president, he can't be a lame duck.

I mean, I get what you're trying to say, but it would be like calling canards "flaps" because they are little wings that flap around.

 

[Archibald]

Fixed !

 

[edwest4]

Things did wind down or begin to wind down in the early '70s. Presidents come and go, national defense programs need to keep moving and adjustments were made. The US was not interested in a fair fight during the Cold War or parity, they had to be able to beat the Russians where it mattered. Any gross and inappropriate interpretation is just that. Intelligence is run by people with cool heads and with short, medium and long-range plans. Nixon was a victim of Nixon.

 

[F-14D]

The F-12 program ended in January 1968.

It make sense because 93 Mach 3 interceptors are over the top and cost extremely to maintain, for there intended role...

I believe it was also because Robert McNamara wanted the AF to adopt an interceptor version of the F-111A (really!) and AF didn't want it and neither did Congress. In fact, Congress provided funding for the F-12B multiple times and he refused to spend the money. Finally he ordered the Blackbird tooling destroyed because that insured there would be no way there could be an F-12. The fact that a few more SR-71s had been planned for attrition spares was considered just collateral damage.

 

[Michel Van]

interesting note F-14D

It would make sense for McNamara to put the F-111(F?) as long range interceptor, compare to F-12
lower cost F-111 carry eight missiles and had a Gun, the extrem cost F-12 had not gun, only three missiles.
Range was the F-111 also better 3,690 mi, 5940 km against 3,000 mi, 4800 km for F-12.
Only advance the F-12 would had is approach target at Mach 3.35

Compare to F-111 is the F-12 not much combat effective, combine with extreme high operation cost.
It's ironic that F-111 interceptor it self was victim, (combine with change of Air combat doctrine)
of simpler to build and lower cost interceptor: the F-4, the F-15 and for Navy the F-14.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Compare to F-111 is the F-12 not much combat effective, combine with extreme high operation cost.

I'm not sure if it wouldn't have actually been the other way around!

 

[rooster]

I always thought the f12 was an unworkable idea, especially when you look at the documentaries about the 71 and the complexities of flying a single mission. Would the alert pilots have had to sleep in their pressure suits? But they would have been capable of being repurposed. But to the ops original question, that's when Lockheed hit its low point until the 117 came along and they hit their stride. All these aerospace companies operated in a dangerous game of either hitting gold or going bankrupt, almost binary. Look to the 80s and 90s with all the mergers and acquisitions.Then the risks they took with the atf program. I think or hope people in charge realized that we couldn't maintain a viable aerospace supply base the way things were going which could be the reason to try to throw Boeing a bone with the 15x.