Boeing 737 MAX family NEWS ONLY

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Grey Havoc said:
Boeing's Crisis Management Keeps Falling Short
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Thanks for the link, however I am not a subscriber to WSJ. Other than a delay beyond the early days of 2020, does the article say anything about likely outcomes through the rest of the year?
 
To summarize that last, it is possible that some wiring towards the tail of the plane may be in danger of rubbing together and short-circuiting, so the need to re-route it is being assessed. Wholly unrelated to the main problem.
 
steelpillow said:
To summarize that last, it is possible that some wiring towards the tail of the plane may be in danger of rubbing together and short-circuiting, so the need to re-route it is being assessed. Wholly unrelated to the main problem.
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But another nail into the MAX coffin...
 
In due probability it could be a case of mistaken identificaty with a P-8.

The video released could depict what is a Manpad/missile hit (long shot).

In that case, only the business model of Boeing (and Airbus Military) could be affected...
 
I don't think we should be speculating causes of the Iranian disaster based on circumstantial evidence until more is known.
The fact it crashed only two minutes after take-off makes claims of a mistaken identity rather unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely.
 
Sadly, the assumption is also shared by ppl having real intelligence gathering means:

U.S. intelligence picked up signals of a radar being turned on, sources told CBS News. U.S. satellites also detected two surface-to-air missile launches, which happened shortly before the plane exploded, CBS News was told.

Federal officials were briefed on the intelligence Thursday, CBS News transportation Kris Van Cleave reports. A source who was in the briefing said it appears missile components were found near the crash site.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/live-update...ukraine-today-2020-01-09-live-stream-updates/
 
steelpillow said:
To summarize that last, it is possible that some wiring towards the tail of the plane may be in danger of rubbing together and short-circuiting, so the need to re-route it is being assessed. Wholly unrelated to the main problem.
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And a very common problem on a whole range of modern aircraft. Nothing uniquely Boeing with this one.

(Back from the land of no-internet).
 
TomcatViP said:
Sadly, the assumption is also shared by ppl having real intelligence gathering means:

U.S. intelligence picked up signals of a radar being turned on, sources told CBS News. U.S. satellites also detected two surface-to-air missile launches, which happened shortly before the plane exploded, CBS News was told.

Federal officials were briefed on the intelligence Thursday, CBS News transportation Kris Van Cleave reports. A source who was in the briefing said it appears missile components were found near the crash site.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/live-update...ukraine-today-2020-01-09-live-stream-updates/
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There is a possible video of a missile hit and photos of missile debris near the crash. Time for a new thread?
 
In the longer run, this could be dynamite against the Iranian Regime: they rely of the fact that there was no way but that the USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air 655 was deliberate, and what have they done? - Shot down an airliner, and tried to erase the evidence.
 
Grey Havoc said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51058929
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The most important bit appears to be: "US House transportation committee chairman, Peter DeFazio - who has been investigating the 737 Max - said the communications "show a coordinated effort dating back to the earliest days of the 737 Max programme to conceal critical information from regulators and the public"."

As for "This airplane is designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys," to be fair I have never worked in an engineering company where the technicians did not hold such opinions.
 
Grey Havoc said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messages.html
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"In the development of the Max, Boeing had promised to offer Southwest a discount of $1 million per plane if regulators required simulator training" - ouch!

"The language used in these communications, and some of the sentiments they express, are inconsistent with Boeing values, and the company is taking appropriate action in response. This will ultimately include disciplinary or other personnel action" - you can make up your own mind which side of the fence they are referring to.
 
https://aviationweek.com/air-transp...r-proposed-max-simulator-training-requirement
Boeing’s efforts to keep 737 Next Generation and MAX training as similar as possible included limiting external discussion of the maneuvering characteristics augmentation system (MCAS) as early as 2013, as well as an aggressive lobbying effort to dissuade Lion Air from requiring simulator sessions for its pilots, new documents released by the manufacturer reveal.


The documents, comprising external and internal emails and internal instant message exchanges, underscore the priority Boeing placed on positioning the MAX as nearly the same as its predecessor, the 737 Next Generation (NG). They also offer some of the most compelling evidence yet that Boeing consciously chose less costly approaches over safer, more conservative ones during the MAX’s development.


Boeing determined early on that ensuring 737 pilots could transition to the MAX without simulator time would be a huge cost advantage when pitching the model to customers. It also realized that regulators could consider some of the MAX’s new features as too much to cover in computer-based training (CBT). The MCAS, a flight control law that commands automatic stabilizer movements in certain flight profiles, was chief among them.
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More at the link.
 
Grey Havoc said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51058929
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This is interesting:
'"I want to stress the importance of holding firm that there will not be any type of simulator training required to transition from NG to Max," Boeing's 737 chief technical pilot at the time, Mark Forkner, said in a March 2017 email.

"Boeing will not allow that to happen. We'll go face to face with any regulator who tries to make that a requirement."

On Tuesday this week, Boeing reversed its position by recommending 737 Max simulator training for all pilots.'
 
There's an interesting article in this week's Flight International about the background to the launch of the Neo and the Max (and to a lesser extent the C Series/A220). Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an online version of it (unless you're a Flight subscriber).
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...g-boeing-messages-show-employee-unease-on-max
In a memo on June 1, 2018, an employee vented about a culture where managers only give lip-service to quality. The sender was warning that Boeing might not be granted an extension to fix the Max simulator at London’s Gatwick airport, which would put the device at risk of losing its qualification.

“We put ourselves in this position by picking the lowest cost supplier and signing up to impossible schedules. Why did the lowest ranking and most unproven supplier receive the contract? Solely based on bottom dollar. Not just MAX but also the 777X!”

Added the employee: “I don’t know how to fix these things... it’s systematic. It’s culture. It’s the fact that we have a senior leadership team that understand very little about the business and yet are driving us to certain objectives. Its lots of individual groups that aren’t working closely and being accountable. It exemplifies the ‘lazy B’” -- the nickname the person used for Boeing.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-sought-more-max-training-boeing-thwarted-it
 
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