Iran with human Spaceflights program?

Michel Van

Michel Van

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new activity in Iran Space program

this time a Monkey on suborbital fight of 120 km up and down.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21230691
now there is this news
From Aerospace Research Institute of Iran, they declare Iran has plans to send human to outer space !
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Iran_Manufacturing_Hi_Tech_Spacesuits_999.html
that would indicate they working on bigger rockets with manned payload of 1500 kg ~ 3000 kg or simple cover story for a ICBM R&D program ?
 
You don't need the payload capacity required for manned capsules to have a workable ICBM, unless they are after a very ambitious heavy ICBM with multiple warheads and penetration aids.
 
Vahe Demirjian said:
An update on Iran's plans for manned spaceflight.......

http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/iran-plans-for-manned-space-flight-by-2018-while-dismissing-monkey-business-claims.html

Time will tell if Iran makes good on its plan to send a man into space by 2018 because a number of planned space launches by Iran have yet to materialize (e.g. maiden flight of Simorgh, launch of Tolou).
Click to expand...


Would Iran be more capable of launching a manned capsule than she is of building a stealth fighter that is not so very obviously a fraud? One thing is clear, every country that has launched a man into space has had much more aerospace industrial experience than putting new fins on the f-5.
 
Chuck4,

A rather trivial point considering the two things have very little to do with each other. It's like saying, "well 2 of the 3 nations that have put men/women into space were communist, if we have a communist government, we can do it too!" While Iran doesn't have much a true traditional aerospace industry, they have an EXTENSIVE ballistic missile industry (including in both liquid and solid fuel rocket/missile designs), and a fair amount of financial support, which is exactly what you need for a proper space program.

Just look at their current space program. The Safir SLV is a relatively simple design: two liquid-fuel stages, the 1st based on the Shahab-3/NoDong and the 2nd stage of their own design. Yet, this simple design has been MUCH more successful than North Korea's much larger Unha SLVs. The fact the Simorgh is taking a bit longer for its first test launch than expected is likely because Iran wants to be sure not to repeat the failures North Korea encountered when they first tested the Taepodong-2/Unha years ago. While the two nations use some the same technology in their SLVs, the differences between Iran and North Korea's space programs is quite stark. Instead of going straight to a larger, more complicated design for their first SLV, Iran chose a simpler and safer design and it paid off with 3 successful launches in 3 years, instead of the abysmal results of North Korea's efforts.

When it comes to the plans for a suborbital launch...IMHO they have the technical ability to do so, though their deadline (2018-2020) might be a bit overly ambitious. Since suborbital launches require much smaller SLVs than orbital launches and from the information I have see on the subject (several "think tanks" have looked into the idea), the Simorgh would be a fine basis for a suborbital launch vehicle. For manned orbital launches though, will require a larger SLV altogether..Which Iranian officials have already hinted at there being a larger SLV in the works. When it comes to what Iran's suborbital and orbital manned launched vehicles COULD look like, I strong suggest a visit to GlobalSecurity.org's page on the subject. Here are few sketches they have on the subject:
 

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To achieve manned spaceflight, especially sub-orbital, does not requires leading-edge technologies.


Both USA and USSR could perform suborbital flights, with very simple capsules, since mid-50's (and British BIS project Megaroc tu exploit V2 for suborbital flights, was even earlier).


I guess that even Iran could achieve some result in suborbita manned flight based upon the current ballistic missile technology level.


Manned orbital flight indeed is a completely different business, since it requires a more mature technologies about thermal control and attitude, life support and last but not least material science for TPS during re-entry.


But all the above technologies are also, today, market available (Russia, China and so on).


A stealth aircraft fighter requires a bigger technology effort compared to manned suborbital flight, imho.
 
Eagle2009 said:
Just look at their current space program. The Safir SLV is a relatively simple design: two liquid-fuel stages, the 1st based on the Shahab-3/NoDong and the 2nd stage of their own design. Yet, this simple design has been MUCH more successful than North Korea's much larger Unha SLVs. The fact the Simorgh is taking a bit longer for its first test launch than expected is likely because Iran wants to be sure not to repeat the failures North Korea encountered when they first tested the Taepodong-2/Unha years ago. While the two nations use some the same technology in their SLVs, the differences between Iran and North Korea's space programs is quite stark. Instead of going straight to a larger, more complicated design for their first SLV, Iran chose a simpler and safer design and it paid off with 3 successful launches in 3 years, instead of the abysmal results of North Korea's efforts.
Click to expand...


National prestige implies not to let failures edge their way through tighly controlled media.
Yet, it seems Iranian space program failures are not officially acknowleged:


http://www.spaceflight101.com/iran-launch-failure-february-2013.html


Umm.. So... Err... Space technology will always be risky for newbies, wether North Koreans or Iranians.


A.
 
North Korea missiles surely are no dong... (runs for cover)
 
Hm. Suborbital flight? Seems doable, but hardly would give anything if not followed by orbital booster. And I'm not sure Iran actually have one.

Could we not go into political? Because if we start to count the number of American politicians, military ranks and media persons who should be thrown away from Earth, we probably would easily get enough for Musk Mars colonization project.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fair enough. As I said elsewhere, I have zero sympathy for fanatics and populists, related to religion or politics altogether. This forum however is not the right place to discuss those morons...
 
As things stand now, how close is Iran in putting Iranian astronauts into space? This year? Next year? Father along down the road? What is the pacing item?
 
greenmartian2017 said:
As things stand now, how close is Iran in putting Iranian astronauts into space? This year? Next year? Father along down the road? What is the pacing item?
Click to expand...
Depend on what to describe as "space". If you meant suborbital flight above the Karman line, they could do it basically anytime. They have MRBM capable of sending one-ton warhead to 2000 km; this is more than enough for suborbital jump of astronaut capsule.

If you meant orbit... things got more complicated. Currently, Iran have nothing powerful enough. There are a lot of allegations about Iran designing IRBM/ICBM grade missiles, but for now nothing was actually confirmed by any sources. Their most capable space boosters are still in 200-kg league.
 
Since this about is a real program, albeit quite possibly doomed to fail thanks to ongoing purges and such, how come this thread ended up in the Theoretical section, rather than being left in Space Projects?
 
I suppose tje reason is the Iranian gvt has not mentionned a HSF program - unlike India some years ago. @Michel Van post dates back from 2013 and was already speculative.
 
What if Iran starts selling seats to space tourists?
... selling those seats for less money than Bransom or Bezos?
 
Eagle2009 said:
Chuck4,

A rather trivial point considering the two things have very little to do with each other. It's like saying, "well 2 of the 3 nations that have put men/women into space were communist, if we have a communist government, we can do it too!" While Iran doesn't have much a true traditional aerospace industry, they have an EXTENSIVE ballistic missile industry (including in both liquid and solid fuel rocket/missile designs), and a fair amount of financial support, which is exactly what you need for a proper space program.

Just look at their current space program. The Safir SLV is a relatively simple design: two liquid-fuel stages, the 1st based on the Shahab-3/NoDong and the 2nd stage of their own design. Yet, this simple design has been MUCH more successful than North Korea's much larger Unha SLVs. The fact the Simorgh is taking a bit longer for its first test launch than expected is likely because Iran wants to be sure not to repeat the failures North Korea encountered when they first tested the Taepodong-2/Unha years ago. While the two nations use some the same technology in their SLVs, the differences between Iran and North Korea's space programs is quite stark. Instead of going straight to a larger, more complicated design for their first SLV, Iran chose a simpler and safer design and it paid off with 3 successful launches in 3 years, instead of the abysmal results of North Korea's efforts.

When it comes to the plans for a suborbital launch...IMHO they have the technical ability to do so, though their deadline (2018-2020) might be a bit overly ambitious. Since suborbital launches require much smaller SLVs than orbital launches and from the information I have see on the subject (several "think tanks" have looked into the idea), the Simorgh would be a fine basis for a suborbital launch vehicle. For manned orbital launches though, will require a larger SLV altogether..Which Iranian officials have already hinted at there being a larger SLV in the works. When it comes to what Iran's suborbital and orbital manned launched vehicles COULD look like, I strong suggest a visit to GlobalSecurity.org's page on the subject. Here are few sketches they have on the subject:
Click to expand...
Did Charles Vick lose the rights to his drawings?
 
riggerrob said:
What if Iran starts selling seats to space tourists?
... selling those seats for less money than Bransom or Bezos?
Click to expand...

Well if they send Mammoth Ahmadinejad into space with no hope of returning, why not ? In fact it might be appropriate to send him to Uranus, since he is such an A-hole in the first place... and don't forget to take A. Khamenei with him, too, what a relieve that that would be for the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad
(runs for cover !)
 
Iranian space launch vehicles that use liquid fuel propellant and oxidizer are based on North Korean designs or were designed jointly with North Korea hence RD-250 esque rocket engine is not out of question to show up in Iran if they were to introduce a new liquid SLV rocket.

Hwasong-15 that incorporates swiveled / gimbal nozzles doesn't have verniers along its iteration of Paektusan rocket engine that is derived on inspired by RD-250 has much longer operational / burn time of 190 seconds at most, 60% longer than RD-251M on Tsyklon-3.

Hwasong-15 by itself could be used as two stage space launch vehicle that could replace Unha-3 that has delivered 100kg satellites.

Iran successfully produces J85-GE-21 and FJ33 that extensively use titanium and for that reason it is clear that they could use titanium as one of materials for a reentry capsule, as for heat shield, whatever they use its good enough if survives exhaust from RD-250 class engine.
 
BullpupRafale said:
Iranian space launch vehicles that use liquid fuel propellant and oxidizer are based on North Korean designs or were designed jointly with North Korea hence RD-250 esque rocket engine is not out of question to show up in Iran if they were to introduce a new liquid SLV rocket.

Hwasong-15 that incorporates swiveled / gimbal nozzles doesn't have verniers along its iteration of Paektusan rocket engine that is derived on inspired by RD-250 has much longer operational / burn time of 190 seconds at most, 60% longer than RD-251M on Tsyklon-3.

Hwasong-15 by itself could be used as two stage space launch vehicle that could replace Unha-3 that has delivered 100kg satellites.

Iran successfully produces J85-GE-21 and FJ33 that extensively use titanium and for that reason it is clear that they could use titanium as one of materials for a reentry capsule, as for heat shield, whatever they use its good enough if survives exhaust from RD-250 class engine.
Click to expand...
How much titanium is mined and refined in Iran?
 
riggerrob said:
BullpupRafale said:
Iranian space launch vehicles that use liquid fuel propellant and oxidizer are based on North Korean designs or were designed jointly with North Korea hence RD-250 esque rocket engine is not out of question to show up in Iran if they were to introduce a new liquid SLV rocket.

Hwasong-15 that incorporates swiveled / gimbal nozzles doesn't have verniers along its iteration of Paektusan rocket engine that is derived on inspired by RD-250 has much longer operational / burn time of 190 seconds at most, 60% longer than RD-251M on Tsyklon-3.

Hwasong-15 by itself could be used as two stage space launch vehicle that could replace Unha-3 that has delivered 100kg satellites.

Iran successfully produces J85-GE-21 and FJ33 that extensively use titanium and for that reason it is clear that they could use titanium as one of materials for a reentry capsule, as for heat shield, whatever they use its good enough if survives exhaust from RD-250 class engine.
Click to expand...
How much titanium is mined and refined in Iran?
Click to expand...
I don't know. That is recent.

https://www.aei.org/articles/iran-becoming-a-titanium-producer/
http://tioxite.com/news/industry-news/iran-brings-strategic-titanium-mine-into-production-irna/
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/458861/Iran-masters-technology-to-produce-titanium-metal
https://en.irna.ir/news/84254534/Iran-ranks-among-states-producing-titanium-metal
 
Worst case: they fail and somebody dies. Best case: they come up with useful solutions.

Both can happen simultaneously.
 

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