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Author Topic: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.  (Read 537185 times)

Online kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2010, 12:17:18 am »
A vehicle that was prototyped for the SADF to be used on rails in front of trains. I don't know much else unfortunately...

Offline Lauge

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2010, 02:37:00 am »
A vehicle that was prototyped for the SADF to be used on rails in front of trains. I don't know much else unfortunately...

A return to the good old "armored train" concept of yesteryear? I like it, somehow. Ought to work OK, provided the opposition has no aircraft (and are gentmen enough not to blow up the tracks  ::) ).

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Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2010, 03:48:36 am »
A return to the good old "armored train" concept of yesteryear? I like it, somehow. Ought to work OK, provided the opposition has no aircraft (and are gentmen enough not to blow up the tracks  ::) ).

Not really. The Rhodesians had something similar on a less grand scale that's role was to clear rail tracks of demolition charges and the like before the goods and passenger trains would come through. A very important role in a domestic counter insurgency operation if you want to keep the rails and your economy in operation.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Online kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2010, 06:50:55 am »
I wonder if the new Mbombe 6x6 ICV unveiled at AAD 2010 has any ancestory in the Mechem Krokodil in Post 5?

Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2010, 09:57:02 am »
I wonder if the new Mbombe 6x6 ICV unveiled at AAD 2010 has any ancestory in the Mechem Krokodil in Post 5?

You took the words right out of my mouth! This thing screams Krokodil/Gator/Rhino! Looks like they warmed the basic design over with a fancy new weapons station and some new design language.

Online kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2010, 09:05:39 am »
The Mbombe is armed with a dual feed 30mm gun as described in it's released data. Looking at the pics released, does anyone know what gun this is? The barrel looks very long to me.......

Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2010, 02:01:55 pm »
The Mbombe is armed with a dual feed 30mm gun as described in it's released data. Looking at the pics released, does anyone know what gun this is? The barrel looks very long to me.......

That is an excellent question and one which I am looking to answer as well. The turret itself was designed by a South African consultancy, the gun looks Russian in origin to me...??? 2A42 or 2A72 perhaps? They are both dual feed and have IFV applications.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 02:10:02 pm by sealordlawrence »

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2010, 06:23:37 pm »
Its a Shipunov 2A42 gas operated 30x165mm cannon. Cheap and easy but the round has quite a bit less lethality than western 30x173mm.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Online kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2010, 08:46:07 am »
Nice one Sealord and AG.

Denel has two turrets available. The Modular Combat Turret which houses its 30mm EMAK-30 linkless cam gun, as fitted to the local Patria AMV version, the Badger.
The other one is the LCT 30 turret, which houses the 30mm Mk44 Bushmaster.
Both are 30mmx173mm.
Although listed as seperate turrets, aren't these two turrets the same product with slight differences? As in the turret originally mooted for Hoefyster with the 35mmx225mm gun?

I assume the two turrets would be mountable on the Mbombe? The basic vehicle appears to be as large and heavy as the Patria, from the stats released so far. Who manufactures the turret as shown on the Mbombe at it's unveiling?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 08:49:21 am by kaiserbill »

Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2010, 01:33:04 pm »
Nice one Sealord and AG.

Denel has two turrets available. The Modular Combat Turret which houses its 30mm EMAK-30 linkless cam gun, as fitted to the local Patria AMV version, the Badger.
The other one is the LCT 30 turret, which houses the 30mm Mk44 Bushmaster.
Both are 30mmx173mm.
Although listed as seperate turrets, aren't these two turrets the same product with slight differences? As in the turret originally mooted for Hoefyster with the 35mmx225mm gun?

I assume the two turrets would be mountable on the Mbombe? The basic vehicle appears to be as large and heavy as the Patria, from the stats released so far. Who manufactures the turret as shown on the Mbombe at it's unveiling?

With the correct engineering I see no reason why the Denel turret could not be fitted. At the very least, the two Denel turrets share a lot of common design features, I would imagine that there is little between them. The turret on the Mbombe at the unveiling is built by Comenius Consultants, as far as I can tell they are Swedish owned with an office in South Africa.

The interesting thing abut the EMAK-35 gun is that, just like the South African GT-6 MBT gun design, it was designed to be upgraded to a larger calibre relatively easily- 50mm in the case of the EMAK 35 (apparently it would only have required the replacement of the barrel) and 140mm, up from 120mm, for the GT-6 gun.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 01:45:25 pm by sealordlawrence »

Online kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2010, 02:33:06 am »
Great stuff Sealord!

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2010, 07:45:21 pm »
Must be, well, "interesting" I think would be the best term, as far as manoeuvrability goes.  Its turning circle would be enormous!

Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2010, 01:45:19 am »
Must be, well, "interesting" I think would be the best term, as far as manoeuvrability goes.  Its turning circle would be enormous!

http://paramountgroup.biz/uploads/assets/files/Products/Mbombe%20Vers3%20Landscape%20Sep10.pdf

Less than 20m.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2010, 03:53:45 am »
Must be, well, "interesting" I think would be the best term, as far as manoeuvrability goes.  Its turning circle would be enormous!

http://paramountgroup.biz/uploads/assets/files/Products/Mbombe%20Vers3%20Landscape%20Sep10.pdf

Less than 20m.

As against a Piranha III which has one of 8.25m and a BTR-90 which has one of 6m.

Online kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2010, 06:46:07 am »
Must be, well, "interesting" I think would be the best term, as far as manoeuvrability goes.  Its turning circle would be enormous!

http://paramountgroup.biz/uploads/assets/files/Products/Mbombe%20Vers3%20Landscape%20Sep10.pdf

Less than 20m.

As against a Piranha III which has one of 8.25m and a BTR-90 which has one of 6m.

How are you measuring this turning circle?

South Africa generally measures it as "curb-to-curb". The BTR-80 for example has a turning circle when measured thus of between 14 and 20 meters. The BTR-90 has steering on all wheels, so will better that naturaly. But at what cost does this come at? I do know that it isn't nearly as well protected overall.

Manoeuverability isn't just about turning circles though.

They have also obviously gone for 6x6 for a reason, one of which may be due to attempting to balance costs and capabilities. There are other South African companies offering 8x8 vehicles.

Having another look at the vehicle as compared to the Krokodil on page 1, this Mbombe is front engined, wheras the Krokodil appears to have a mid mounted engine.