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Author Topic: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.  (Read 537189 times)

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2010, 12:21:55 am »
Engineer's bridging equipment being transferred from an 8x8 bridge vehicle to an Olifant Mk1b hull that could also carry and deploy it.

Looks like German Leguan bridging gear.

Perhaps a thread should be started about the South African tank programme?

Mos Def.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2010, 01:00:26 am »
This 8X8 armoured gun tractor was based on Samil 100 components, but was not taken into service.

Offline kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2010, 06:00:23 am »
Two of the more rarer Casspirs. An 81mm mortar carrier and a 106mm recoiless gun carrier.
The last one is of a shortened Casspir with a short wheelbase.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 06:15:41 am by kaiserbill »

Offline Apophenia

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2010, 12:15:05 pm »
A bit more detail on the Casspir-S. The 'S' for Short refers to the crew compartment which is shortened Buffalo-style. The wheelbase remains the standard length. (BTW, a reman Tapir is also on offer with an even more reduced crew cab.)

http://www.mechemdemining.com/pdf/vehicles_casspir_s.pdf
http://www.mechemdemining.com/images/pics/gallery/20.html

Mechem says that it developed the Casspir-S "for the US forces in Afghanistan" (presumably refering to US private contractors rather than the DOD). The Casspir-S Protected Log Carrier is one of four variants of the remanufactured Casspir Mk. 3 (the base vehicle is the Casspir-Protected Personnel Carrier).

- Casspir-S (Short) Protected Log Carrier
- Casspir-Recovery (15-tonne ARV) http://www.mechemdemining.com/images/pics/vehicles/03.html
- Casspir-Ambulance
- Casspir-Command Post

There is also the Casspir LP, a Low Profile, C-130 air-transportable type.
http://www.mechemdemining.com/images/pics/vehicles/11.html
http://www.mechemdemining.com/images/pics/vehicles/13.html

Offline kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2010, 03:50:52 am »
The Okapi was a large 6x6 armoured mine protected vehicle. I'm unsure of the timeframe of it's development, or of its purpose or role, although I've seen it described as a mobile command post.

Offline Matt_Fisher

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2010, 09:37:50 am »
Kaiserbill,

Great stuff!

I remember seeing a picture of that Mechem Gator posted on Force Protection, Inc's website several years ago (circa 2004-5) when Garth Barrett was involved with the company.

The MBD Mantis MPWAVS looks very interesting.  Was it one of the Project Hoefyster South African developed prototype programs?

With the US binning FCS and starting on the 'Ground Combat Vehicle' program, I'm betting alot of these South African 6x6/8x8 APC/IFV inspired concepts start turning up with BAE, General Dynamics and others bids.

Offline kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2010, 01:35:55 am »
Not too sure about the Mantis.
Part of the reason for this thread is that perhaps some gaps can be filled in what is a very interesting, innovative, but still relatively secretive South African military vehicles industry.

The Mantis certainly looks to be an ICV, perhaps a later Ratel replacement candidate? (Hoefyster?)

I must have a look and see what else I have.

Offline HeavyG

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2010, 12:42:55 pm »
A lot armored vehicles in use today have been influenced in one way or another by South African AFV designs. For example, the RG-31/33 series of vehicles in use with US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan were actually designed in SA by BAe Systems/OMC and one of the leading technical designers for Force Protection, Dr Vernon Joynt, is from SA and had done some work on early examples of mine-resistant vehicles.

Offline kaiserbill

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2010, 01:46:59 am »
For those interested in some of the early development of mine protected vehicles in Southern Africa, Taming The Landmine by Peter Stiff is an interesting read, although it is now about 20 years old and is thus a little dated.

Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2010, 10:16:39 am »
The Okapi was a large 6x6 armoured mine protected vehicle. I'm unsure of the timeframe of it's development, or of its purpose or role, although I've seen it described as a mobile command post.

I dont know about anyone else but to me it looks like the Okapi was a very close relative of the Veldskoen...? The quality of the photographs suggests to me that they are also from roughly similar timeframes, probably the early to mid 90s rather than the 80s...?

Offline Petrus

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2010, 09:45:09 am »
The gun below is a 90mm mounted on a 17pdr anti-tank carriage. The 90mm was of French design and equipped the AML-90. South Africa manufactured this 90mm and used it to equip the Eland 90 armoured car and Ratel 90. The plaque has quick-firing, semi-automatic 90mm GT-3 gun as its label.

Interestingly a similar hybrid was built in Israel sometime in the 1960s. What the Israelis used was however a carriage of the British 6-pdr anti-tank gun. Usually the gun was mounted on a back of the Halftrack (as seen below) and the carriage was to be towed behind it. As a tactical situation would demand it, the gun could be dismounted and put on the carriage. Usually however the carriages were left behind and the vehicles became pure self-propelled. They were withdrawn from use after the Yom Kippur war in 1973.



Piotr


Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2010, 10:23:22 am »
I know what the plaque says but without a loading mechanism and magazine that gun is definitely not semi-automatic.

CostasTT

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2010, 11:11:10 am »
I guess semi-automatic refers to the breech operation, with the spent case being ejected automatically.
Also, something about the israeli halftracks mentioned earlier: A number were fitted with 6-pdr guns (minus wheels) during the 1948 war, but the one illustrated in this thread mounts a 90mm MECAR gun of Belgian origin, that was modeled on the 6-pdr.

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2010, 04:39:18 am »
A lot armored vehicles in use today have been influenced in one way or another by South African AFV designs. For example, the RG-31/33 series of vehicles in use with US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan were actually designed in SA by BAe Systems/OMC and one of the leading technical designers for Force Protection, Dr Vernon Joynt, is from SA and had done some work on early examples of mine-resistant vehicles.

Which were of course heavily influenced by the Rhodesian mine and ambush protection (MAP) programs of the mid-early 1970s.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: South African prototypes, projects, concepts, etc.
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2010, 04:46:45 am »
A very different time frame to these Bush War vehicles is the South African Armoured Reconniassance Car Mk VI of 1941-42. While to the casual observer it may look like a copy of the German eight wheelers (acht rad) and this was where the inspiration came from it was actually two sets of Marmon-Herrington 4x4 drive trains (including two engines) with a new armoured monocoque hull (like the Mk IV). Frontal armour was as high as 30mm and two types of turrets were mounted (see pictures). 750 were ordered for the UDF and 250 for the UK but delays in getting components to Africa and the wind down of the North Africa campaign saw production cancelled.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 04:48:44 am by Abraham Gubler »
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling