Caproni Vizzola MCT

Justo Miranda

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Skybolt said:
On the 380 I have the background info and some drawings, but not detailed

I have a small drawing of the Corsaro that I believe is the same that has been published once and again.
I am also adding some information on the Caproni Vizzola MCT. It is a very interesting fighter design. It could either have the Alfa 101, D.B. 605 or Reggiane L.105 engines located behind the pilot with a Bugatti style lateral power shaft
 

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Justo

Could you re-post the 3rd image in your post on the Caproni-ZVizzola FCM?

I get only the top of the image when I try to view/download it

Cheers

ANdrew
 
The Vizzola fighter is the famous Trigona project... drawings has been lately published in "Gente dell'Aria 4".
The 101 is the Alfa 1101. Extensive coverage in Ali Antiche June and December 1996. Interesting engine, BTW, an unconventional design. Have photos. Planned for use in the mysterious Alfa Pomigliano 1902, probably a re-elaboration of the AU MB-902 by Bellomo. The L-105 was a high-altitude derivative of the L-103, the compressor rating at a normal altitude of 10000 mts. Have drawing.
Italian high-altitude fighter designs late in the war are an interesting topic. The DB-605 was involved in two different configurations, one with a A30 driven compressor with burner (like in the Re-2005SF and R), the other with an exhaust gas turbocompressor, like in (perhaps) the Caproni Vizzola (again) Sagittario I of march 1943; that was probably the 605 D.
Ahah, Nico is one of the major responsibles of the Re-2007 legend... even if now is backing down, a little at a time... ;)
 
Found it ! I knew I had it ! An inboard and plan of the 183. Will post this night, stay tuned. Don't have scanner here.
 
Mmmmm Justo, I think you'll have to rework your drawing.. ;). Start new thread.
And the colour camouflage is all wrong: first, by the time the Ca-183bis would have been flying it'd be 1944, and already in 1943 the camouflage was dark green overall. Besides this, fantasy for fantasy, a high altitude fighter would have gained little from a mediterranean low-altitude camo... ::)
 
Skybolt said:
I think you'll have to rework your drawing.. ;).

That is what usually happens when working with insufficient information. All the articles I have read on the Ca-183 bis say that it had a RADIAL engine A-30. As the A-30 is an in line, I assumed that it was a typo and that the author actually meant A-80. That and the diagram of the first Campini project lead me to thinks that the air-intakes were to refrigerate the back engine.

It does not matter, thruth is always best. I will gladly rebuild the drawing.

Thanks for your valuable information!
 
red admiral said:
Most sources state that it was a Fiat A.30 inline.

I have three different sources saying that the Fiat A.30 was a radial engine with 700 h.p. and all of them were wrong. The Fiat A.30 was an in-line V-12 water cooled engine!
 
Skybolt said:
The Vizzola fighter is the famous Trigona project...

I could not find the Spanish publication that was the original source for the MCT drawings.
I bought the drawing from Bon Banka http://www.bobsairdoc.com code Sb5553/OD a couple of years ago.
Perhaps our friend Pometablava may help identify the source........
 
Drawings and data of the Caproni Vizzola MCT (Monoposto Caccia Trigona) come from IARB (Italian Branch of Air Britain) 1/1974 written by Rosario Abate who in turn found them in the Caproni archive (where they remain). The entire collection on CD of IARB (which was the ancestor of Aerofan, and completely written in English, heroic times of the Italian aviation history research) is available on my friend Giorgio Apostolo site (www.apostoloeditore.com) . In Gente dell'Aria 4 there is an additional couple of drawings, an inboard profile and a 3-view of the MCT with the L-105 engine, from Rosario too.
Augh !
 
Justo Miranda said:
red admiral said:
Most sources state that it was a Fiat A.30 inline.

I have three different sources saying that the Fiat A.30 was a radial engine with 700 h.p. and all of them were wrong. The Fiat A.30 was an in-line V-12 water cooled engine!
Confirm the rightness Mr. Miranda. From abovementioned me (p.1) of the source follows that FIAT A.30 (700 hp) was radial.
Express ALL gratitude for extensive material.!
 
Justo,

Drawings are from Spanish magazine "Flaps". They published a series on Italian WW2 aircraft.
 
Thank you Skybolt for comprehensive answer.
"...THE TRUTH where that beside..."
Due to this forum truth becomes obvious.
 
Forgive my ignorance but what is the English meaning of the Italian word 'Trigona'? Babelfish and 3 online dictionaries don't know it? ???
 
Trigona is the surname of the designer (he was a Colonel of Regia Aeronautica Engineer Role)
 
Hi! Caproni Vizzola MCT's Reggiane L105 engine.
Can I see propeller lateral drive shaft at the bottom drawing?

MCT three side view drawing.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3291.0;attach=26787;image
 

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Hi!
Alfa 1101 engine.
"The AR-101-RC-45/II with two compressors, (also a RC 37/87 with a compressor) but its main feature is that it was a great four star of seven cylinders engine, total 28 cylinders. Designed by Wifredo Ricart in 1942. Engine referenced also as AR-1101.

It cubicaba 50'25 litres and gave 2300 Horsepower (that of a compressor)"

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/really-big-powerful-liquid-cooled-engines-the-best-approach.37001/

http://aerospaceengines.blogspot.jp/2012/06/wifredo-ricart-2-etapa-italiana.html
 

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My dear Blackkite,

what was this caproni-Vizzola MCT,a fighter or something else ?,and what its relationship
with Ca.133 ?.
 
Hi my dear heshan-san!
According to my auto Italian-English trasnlator,
MCT(Monoposto Caccia Trigona) is a Single-Seat Fighter Trigona.
So I think MCT was a some kind of sigle seat fighter.
I'm not sure the meaning of Trigona. What is this? ??? Triangle?
 
blackkite said:
Hi my dear heshan-san!
According to my auto Italian-English trasnlator,
MCT(Monoposto Caccia Trigona) is a Single-Seat Fighter Trigona.
So I think MCT was a some kind of sigle seat fighter.
I'm not sure the meaning of Trigona. What is this? ??? Triangle?

Skybolt said:
Trigona is the surname of the designer (he was a Colonel of Regia Aeronautica Engineer Role)
 
Justo Miranda had already posted those Caproni Vizzola MCT drawings in Reply #15.

Perhaps the MCT material should be moved to Italian projects of WWII? Alternatively, a separate thread for Trigona projects?

BTW: Can anyone confirm whether it was Ing Ercole Trigona or Col Emmanuele Trigona who designed the MCT and Sauro 1/Tricap?
 
Grey Havoc said:
blackkite said:
Hi my dear heshan-san!
According to my auto Italian-English trasnlator,
MCT(Monoposto Caccia Trigona) is a Single-Seat Fighter Trigona.
So I think MCT was a some kind of sigle seat fighter.
I'm not sure the meaning of Trigona. What is this? ??? Triangle?

Skybolt said:
Trigona is the surname of the designer (he was a Colonel of Regia Aeronautica Engineer Role)
Thanks!! :D
 
REGIANNE L-105 fighter project. Does anyone have any information on this proposed mid-engined fighter to have been powered by the equally rare ALFA-ROMEO Type 101 28-cylinder aero-engine?
 
Welcome aboard Xylstra,

but I think that's wrong,the only site spoke about this is here;
http://www.stormomagazine.com/.search?query=reggiane&hits=10&offset=50&use_boss

although the Re-105 was an engine ?.
 
Justo Miranda said:
Search the topic " Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions"
Caproni MCT and Caproni Trigona. :)

As I expected,it was an engine,not fighter;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3291.15.html
 
Any reason why, in these Caproni contexts, the engine is referred to as L-105 rather than Re.105?
 
It's a real fighter Project,maybe later we will know more about it.
 
Re: REGIANNE L-105 mid-engined fighter project

The Caproni MCT.

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/197858-progetto-tech-tree-aerei-italiani/&
 

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Re: Re: REGIANNE L-105 mid-engined fighter project

Hasan, your link is incomplete, it should be
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/197858-progetto-tech-tree-aerei-italiani/&page=170&tab=comments#comment-6292533
Il Caproni Vizzola MCT ( Monoposto Caccia Trigona) , basato sul "sauro" (un aereo da addestramento/turismo di vari anni prima ), aveva una certa somiglianza con il Do.335 e venne proposto in varie versioni . La base aveva il DB605 ed era armata con 1x20 mm e 4 da 12,7 ...velocita' di 706 km/h e 6000m in 5 minuti . Pesava poco piu' di 3 tonnellate .
Altre versioni erano piu' grandi e con motori "teorici" ma piu' potenti come Reggiane L.105 , l'Alfa 101 e l'Alfa 101 Maggiorato che dovevano dare velocita' di 740, 760 e 800 km/h rispettivamente. Queste versioni avevano pero' un armamento abbastanza assurdo di 6 mitragliatrici da 12.7 ....
sotto la versione con il 605
Again, google translate.
The Caproni Vizzola MCT (Monoposto Caccia Trigona), based on the "sauro" (a training aircraft / tourism of several years before), had a certain resemblance to the Do.335 and was proposed in various versions. The base had the DB605 and was armed with 1x20 mm and 4 by 12.7 ... speeds of 706 km / h and 6000m in 5 minutes. It weighed just over 3 tons.
Other versions were bigger and with "theoretical" but more powerful engines like Reggiane L.105, Alfa 101 and Alfa 101 Maggiorato which had to give speeds of 740, 760 and 800 km / h respectively. These versions, however, had a rather absurd weaponry of 6 machine guns of 12.7 ....
Below, the version with [DB]605
Shouldn't this be in a Caproni thread?

Indeed ! Split and merged
 
Aerei Nella Storia 63,

was that the same Project or not ?.
 

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Yes. We've covered this a few times. It is the Caproni Vizzola MCT (Monoposto Caccia Trigona) designed by Emmanuale Trigona (colonnello, Genio aeronautico, ruolo ingegneri). The three planned powerplant options for the MCT are shown. On the Reggiane 'M-18' engine, the designation is sometimes given as: Re L 103 RC 100I.

 
Reggiane was a part of the Caproni group. The Re.103 engine was an 18-cylinder, three-bank, inverted engine based on Reggiane's experience with the DB601/605 and the Isotta-Fraschini Asso 1000 W-18.
 
Skybolt said:
published sources

Hi Skybolt,

I have an Italian book on Caproni projects. The title is "Gli Aeroplani della Caproni Aeronautica Bergamasca" by Rosario Abate, Edizione dell'Ateneo & Bizzarri, 1978. VOLUME SECONDO 1920-1946.

It is an excellent work with many projects drawings and I would like to acquire or obtain copies from the other two volumes in the series
VOLUME PRIMO "Dalle Origini al Ca 135 e derivati"
VOLUME TERZO "Dal Ca 320 al 'Corsaro' (Ca 381)

Could you help me, please?
look on ebay !
 
I can't find the radiator of Caproni Vizzola MCT in these three side view drawings. Wing root? 


「Caproni MCT – 1942 FIGHTER PROJECT .

LESSER KNOWN AVIATION

By Jacek Wilczynski March 16, 2024

The single-seat low-wing fighter MCT, designed in the summer of 1942 at the Caproni Vizzola technical office, retained some of the design features of its lighter “Sauro” predecessor, such as the characteristic inverted gull wing and rudder. The rest of the MCT (which was probably an abbreviation for “Monoposto Caccia Trigona”) featured several new and radical technical solutions, such as the pilot’s cockpit located far forward in the fuselage, with a large 620-litre fuel tank, just behind which was the powerplant, which in turn drove a three-bladed, 2.90 m diameter, variable-pitch metal propeller via an extended shaft running along the right inboard side of the fuselage. The trapezoidal wing and tail helped to give the machine a superficial resemblance to the German Dornier Do 335 A “Pfeil” when viewed from above. The all-metal MCT structure was studied in three slightly different versions.

– The first of them, with a span of 9.90 m, wings with an area of 18.20 m2 and a fuselage length of 9.00 m, was to be equipped with a 12-cylinder DB 605 RC57 engine in an inverted "V" configuration, liquid-cooled, with a power of 1,400 hp at take-off and 1,250 hp at an altitude of 5,800 m. The armament was to consist of a cannon, firing similarly to the P-39 "Airacobra", caliber 20 mm (probably Mauser MG151 / 20) with 300 rounds, two 12.7 mm machine guns (probably Breda-SAFAT type) with a rate of fire of 600 rpm mounted in the lower part of the fuselage and synchronized to fire through the propeller circle, and two similar guns with a rate of fire of 500 rpm in the wings. This DB 605-powered version of the MCT, presumably intended for interception duties, was to have a top speed of 706 km/h at an altitude of around 7,000 m, a ceiling of 6,000 m in 5 minutes, a range of 1,190 km at a cruising speed of 565 km/h and a service

in the power unit, which was to be an 18-cylinder, liquid-cooled Reggiane L.105 RC100 I engine with 1,500 hp at 5,000 m and 1,310 hp at 10,000 m in the second version, and a 28-cylinder, four-row, liquid-cooled Alfa 1101 engine in the third version, which was also ceiling of 10,000 m; the minimum speed at low altitude was to be a moderate 130 km/h.

– The second and third versions of the MCT had slightly increased overall dimensions. The wing span and area were increased to 10.60 m and 23.00 m2, respectively, and the fuselage length to 9.70 m. They were also provided with similar armament, which differed from the armament of the first version. The 20-millimeter cannon was abandoned and two 12.7-millimeter machine guns were mounted side by side, the right one slightly moved forward compared to the left one. The main difference was characterized by a larger, rounded fuselage cross-section due to the larger engine.

Given the lack of further details on this latter power unit, it is believed that it could be identified with the Alfa 101 RC80 engine that was under development at the time and for which a power output of 1,800 hp at 8,000 m was predicted for the basic version or 2,100 hp at the same altitude for the “maggiorato” version (presumably an improved version of the basic version).

No weight or performance data for the last two versions of the MCT have been preserved, and the figures found in publications should be considered informal, rough speculations obtained by extrapolating the data available for the DB 605-engined version. Although the MCT project never got beyond the drawing board, and it is no longer possible to guess the extent of possible modifications to the basic design before actual construction had been reached, it remains an interesting and captivating example of the ingenuity displayed by one of Italy's wartime aircraft engineers.」
 

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