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Author Topic: New Natter book  (Read 1499 times)

Offline Pasoleati

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New Natter book
« on: February 12, 2019, 10:58:29 am »

Offline hesham

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 12:49:55 pm »
Looks great,thanks.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2019, 01:39:04 pm »
Looks great,thanks.

Was it a historic step to human spaceflight?

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 02:13:38 pm »

Was it a historic step to human spaceflight?

That would seem to be a bit of a stretch. The blurb claims that the author has found a lot of stuff previously classified by the US and UK, so, I guess... *maybe?* But I've never before come across anything that tied the Natter in to *anybodies* manned space efforts.
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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 11:59:41 am »

Was it a historic step to human spaceflight?

That would seem to be a bit of a stretch. The blurb claims that the author has found a lot of stuff previously classified by the US and UK, so, I guess... *maybe?* But I've never before come across anything that tied the Natter in to *anybodies* manned space efforts.

This will undoubtedly be an excellent successor to Gooden's highly-detailed but sadly long out-of-print previous Natter book but while 'Manned Missile of the Third Reich' is appropriate, I can't help but feel that the 'historic step to human spaceflight' line isn't entirely in the spirit of what the Natter was all about.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 11:26:28 pm by newsdeskdan »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 05:31:34 am »
Looks great,thanks.

Was it a historic step to human spaceflight?

As much,  as the V2 was an attempt to conquer space !   ::)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline martinbayer

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 08:48:25 am »
Ve aimed at se stars but sometimes hit London?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:05:53 am by martinbayer »
Would be marching to the beat of his own drum, if he didn't detest marching to any drumbeat at all so much.

Offline edwest

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 09:41:37 am »
I plan to get it.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 10:29:39 am »
I plan to get it.

I have placed my preorder. Can't resist any German projects book no matter what it says on the cover.

Offline Pasoleati

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 07:43:39 pm »
Apparently it is not published until June.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 11:53:13 pm »
Apparently it is not published until June.

Available to pre-order here: https://www.bookworldws.co.uk//natter-manned-missile-third-reich-order-p-8239.html?osCsid=p83d99b90edkoquec2109om4l4. Be warned though, unlike Amazon they do take your money straight away!

A survey of the original book indicates that it contains about 280 images on 144 pages - so 800 images on 500 pages is a bit of a step up!

It's interesting that the cover depicts a sort of re-imagining of the famous photo showing test pilot Lothar Sieber chatting to Erich Bachem just before his ill-fated launch on March 1, 1945. However, while the actual scene shows Sieber wearing a regular unpressurised one-piece flying suit, the re-imagining appears to show him wearing an experimental Watanzug pressure suit. Maybe this small historical inaccuracy makes proceedings look more 'spacey', even though I think it's unlikely that pilots of the Natter in active service would have been issued with cutting edge personal equipment like that.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 12:36:27 am by newsdeskdan »

Offline Zizi6785

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 05:16:51 am »
This photo:

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2019, 05:49:30 am »
This photo:

Yep. Actually, the cover depicts a rather different configuration of Natter - different tail, no nose cap and only two large boosters. It's not '23'. The launch tower is the later 'pole' type too. I wonder whether this is an 'imagining' or if Gooden has evidence of more than one manned launch?

Offline athpilot

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2019, 09:47:15 am »
This photo:

Yep. Actually, the cover depicts a rather different configuration of Natter - different tail, no nose cap and only two large boosters. It's not '23'. The launch tower is the later 'pole' type too. I wonder whether this is an 'imagining' or if Gooden has evidence of more than one manned launch?

"or if Gooden has evidence of more than one manned launch?" I canŽt imagine that... but weŽll see.

Offline Dynoman

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2019, 01:43:50 pm »
I think there were three other pilots that flew the Natter after Siebert in powered flight (according to one source- William Green: Warplanes of the Third Reich). Hans Zubert flew four glide flights in the Natter, but no powered flights. Another pilot who supposedly flew a powered flight was a pilot named Feldwebel Ernst Hemmer, however I do not know how reliable the source (Renato Vesco) is. Maybe someone else knows the Hemmer connection. After researching works by Vesco I'm am very skeptical of his claim of Hemmer.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 05:39:01 pm by Dynoman »

Offline Antonio

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 12:01:42 am »
Found that Horst Lommel has a couple of monographs about the Natter

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/s//ref=mw_dp_a_s?ie=UTF8&i=books&k=Horst+Lommel


Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 01:30:30 am »
I think there were three other pilots that flew the Natter after Siebert in powered flight (according to one source- William Green: Warplanes of the Third Reich). Hans Zubert flew four glide flights in the Natter, but no powered flights. Another pilot who supposedly flew a powered flight was a pilot named Feldwebel Ernst Hemmer, however I do not know how reliable the source (Renato Vesco) is. Maybe someone else knows the Hemmer connection. After researching works by Vesco I'm am very skeptical of his claim of Hemmer.

I grew up reading Green and Warplanes of the Third Reich was a landmark achievement in its day, but research has moved on since 1970 and I wouldn't necessarily regard what he wrote then as being entirely accurate given what we know today. Nevertheless, it seems to me that Gooden is trying to say something with that cover.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 01:32:17 am »
Found that Horst Lommel has a couple of monographs about the Natter

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/s//ref=mw_dp_a_s?ie=UTF8&i=books&k=Horst+Lommel

My first reaction on seeing Gooden's new volume was 'does the world really need yet another Natter book?' But it seems that this one might be truly definitive.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2019, 03:42:38 am »
On Facebook, Robert Forsyth answered a question about the cover regarding the lack of room for the pressure suit helmet to fit under the Natter's canopy:

Robert Forsyth: "For interest, I contacted the author and the artist about your comment and they have responded as follows:"

Brett Gooden: "In the Bachem Werk plan of the B-0 Natter shown in the book, the canopy has a distinctive upward hump in it which would have accommodated the pressure helmet adequately. The artist Barry Spicer had a problem with trying to represent this matter and built a small cardboard model of the cockpit and canopy area in order to try and solve it.”

Barry Spicer: "Regarding the canopy, it was the hardest part to represent given all of the curves, angles and perspective. I understand what the fellow is saying and perhaps there may be a slight inaccuracy, but I believe it is depicted reasonably well." 🤔

Offline edwest

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2019, 06:37:21 pm »
The suit being worn by the pilot on the cover also illustrates a hard material on the lower torso and legs. I am hoping for new information about German pressure suits.

Offline Dynoman

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2019, 10:53:16 am »
A link on SPF of WWII German pressure suits.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,31459.0.html

Offline athpilot

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2019, 12:06:13 pm »
Looking at the coverartwork again, something seems to be odd with the empennage. A T-Tail?

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2019, 02:41:22 pm »
Looking at the coverartwork again, something seems to be odd with the empennage. A T-Tail?

As noted in Gooden's cover art query response from Facebook, it's evidently supposed to be a Ba 349 B-0, rather than the more familiar Ba 349 A-1. Presumably that had a T-tail.

Offline edwest

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Re: New Natter book
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2019, 07:52:41 pm »
Thank you Dynoman. In 1950, the US Air Force produced a two volume set titled German Aviation Medicine. The Draeger Company had the necessary experience. In the United States, coal miners were provided breathing equipment by the Draeger Men.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 07:57:26 pm by edwest »