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Author Topic: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES  (Read 28417 times)

Offline flateric

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Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« on: September 08, 2007, 11:14:10 pm »
One of most aesthetically appealing and meantime strangest Rutan's design - rarely seen two-seat version of it (Model 151-4). Drawings (c) Scaled Composites
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Offline yasotay

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2007, 09:23:36 am »
Thanks flateric,

 I have always wondered if there had been consideration of a two seat version of the ARES.  I have pondered of late, with all the discussion ongoing over a COIN aircraft how the design would have done to meet the emerging requirement.  If memory serves it had a decent payload for its size and it was highly maneuverable as well.  I would assume it would have had a relatively low maintenance requirement as well.

Offline CFE

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2007, 07:34:57 pm »
Too bad ARES won't be in consideration for the new CAS aircraft for the Iraqi Air Force.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2007, 09:32:02 pm »
One of most aesthetically appealing and meantime strangest Rutan's design - rarely seen two-seat version of it (Model 151-4).

As I recollect, only the single ARES prototype was ever built?

I do find it interesting that the two seater would have retained the assymetrical intake - and possibly even GAU-12 gun?

It is worth pondering whether this ARES derivative would been a serious JPATS contender if the off-the-shelf requirement had been relaxed?

Offline yasotay

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2007, 04:53:02 am »
I am speculating somewhat here, but I think that the program was started as a US Army project and the USAF had nothing to do with it. The USAF having a slight phobia at Army projects (especially fixed wing projects) (not speculation), doomed it to a one aircraft demonstration.  I would be interested to have more than something of 'urban legend' on the program, is there a site or another thread with more information?

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2007, 07:47:37 am »
Model 151 called Agile Responsive Effective Support or short ARES

1981 the United States Army requested that a study be undertaken for a LCBAA or low cost battlefield attack aircraft.

with other word ARES is low cost A-10 Thunderbolt II !

can it be that Two Seat ARES is a Counter-insurgency (COIN) Aircraft  ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency#COIN_Aircraft
2 men crew, pilot and observer

other COIN Aircraft
OV-10 Bronco
O-2 Skymaster ( Cessna 337 Super Skymaster)
FMA IA 58 Pucará
A-37 Dragonfly
have two men Crew.
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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2008, 06:28:23 am »


What a Sad history my friends, I like very much this design, I think it´s a wonderful solution for the increasing cost of the combat aircraft.

But the rivalry between the US ARMY and USAF and US NAVY is a very old history.

Saludos

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 09:20:22 pm »

Here is the one seat version anyway ... may help in comparison

These images are from www.Air-and-Space.com
by Brian Lockett


« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 04:00:39 am by avatar »


Offline Just call me Ray

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2009, 12:55:06 am »
I know the Army's been asking for additional air support options, maybe someone decided the ARES concept was worth investigating again.
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
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Offline flateric

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2009, 09:21:29 am »
I know the Army's been asking for additional air support options, maybe someone decided the ARES concept was worth investigating again.

seems that you just haven't read the article)))
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stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Just call me Ray

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2009, 02:46:37 pm »
I did. It doesn't say anything about B-2 testing specifically, or about any specific program. Either that, or I guess the B-2 has a much smaller radar than I thought.

EDIT: Unless it's in the box structure under the wing. Still seems kinda small, but the planform seems to closely match a B-2's nose. Still, I have to wonder why did they drag the ARES out for this then.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 02:49:16 pm by Just call me Ray »
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
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Offline yasotay

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2009, 06:40:17 pm »
I know the Army's been asking for additional air support options, maybe someone decided the ARES concept was worth investigating again.

Nope

Offline quellish

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 04:42:41 am »
I did. It doesn't say anything about B-2 testing specifically, or about any specific program. Either that, or I guess the B-2 has a much smaller radar than I thought.

EDIT: Unless it's in the box structure under the wing. Still seems kinda small, but the planform seems to closely match a B-2's nose. Still, I have to wonder why did they drag the ARES out for this then.

Dimensions on the downward facing panels are about right for the B-2 radar antennas

Offline flateric

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2009, 09:22:13 am »
Actually, why we'd think that these are new B-2 radar tests?
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Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2009, 10:12:05 am »
Perhaps...just perhaps, could it be that maybe they want to test a battlefield radar? Maybe using adapted B-2 gear. It's just my two cents worth, here. Hey, BAe had a mini-AWACS version of it's proposed SABA battlefield jet as seen in BRITISH SECRET PROJECTS: HYPERSONICS.

Maybe the Army over here is thinking the same thing.

Then again, maybe it's just a simple testbed for radars.

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Offline fightingirish

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2009, 10:15:10 am »
Turbofan Killer Bee: Rutan ARES "Mudfighter" for U.S. Army Close Air Support  B)
Video:
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Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2009, 11:20:24 am »
Awesome video. Is that me or does the aircraft's nose get thrown around a bit from the recoil? You'd think you'd be limited to short bursts if that were the case. Does anyone have any more info on this?
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2009, 12:23:57 pm »
Its sad they U.S. Army has not taken ARES

it had be nasty littel devil on battlefields  ;D
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Offline robunos

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2009, 12:33:28 pm »
Quote
Its sad they U.S. Army has not taken ARES

problem is the USAF won't let them take the mission, but USAF don't want the mission themselves...

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Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2009, 01:45:09 am »
Awesome video. Is that me or does the aircraft's nose get thrown around a bit from the recoil? You'd think you'd be limited to short bursts if that were the case. Does anyone have any more info on this?

Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight.  Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2011, 01:07:52 am »
Scaled Composites ARES 151 jet in a new low-vis flat grey paint job, slightly modified (more rounded) lines and and a few more (new?) antennae.
Link: http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.com/2011/12/rare-scaled-composites-ares-151-jet.html
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2011, 03:19:08 am »
Scaled Composites ARES 151 jet in a new low-vis flat grey paint job, slightly modified (more rounded) lines and and a few more (new?) antennae.
Link: http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.com/2011/12/rare-scaled-composites-ares-151-jet.html

Fantastic!! Aircraft like Rutan's Ares and Catbird were so advanced that you can simply take them from the shelf and make them fly again and they're still as cutting edge as when they came out!

Offline yasotay

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 12:28:06 pm »
Scaled Composites ARES 151 jet in a new low-vis flat grey paint job, slightly modified (more rounded) lines and and a few more (new?) antennae.
Link: http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.com/2011/12/rare-scaled-composites-ares-151-jet.html

Um... the same US Navy that tested the Turcano?  ARES is probably fairly easy to build, uses a widely available engine and does not have any of those sooo 20th Century props.  Wonder if there is any interest in the concept again.
 
Well it makes me smile at least.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 03:19:58 pm »
Could this "resurrection" of the ARES have anything to do with the following?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7555.msg134847.html#msg134847

Offline Creative

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2011, 03:57:50 pm »
Looks great in that scheme.

Offline yasotay

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2011, 06:04:58 pm »
A less exciting but more probable course of action if it is indeed going to Pax River is that the Navy Test Pilot School may be renting the aircraft to allow students and instructors to try out an aircraft with some very nice flying qualities.  It is my understanding they do barrow varied aircraft now and again to make things a bit more interesting.
 
Update:  Super Turcano won the USAF competition so unless the USN has continued its own effort, my hypothesis above seems on firmer ground.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 08:15:21 am by yasotay »

Offline hole in the ground

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 06:13:59 am »
Does anyone know of a walkaround series of photos for this aircraft? Or even a cockpit shot?

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2012, 09:11:44 am »
Hi all! Will interesting model of this aircraft in 1:72 cast resin?

« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 09:21:02 am by Walker »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2012, 09:38:06 am »
Splendid model! Is it custom-made or to be released by a model company soon?


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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2012, 11:09:04 am »
Thank you!
Yes it is the master model for casting. Long been in unfinished form. I try to understand, it makes sense to finish and cast kit? What do you think?
The quality of castings will be something like:
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 11:12:37 am by Walker »

Offline flateric

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2012, 11:58:02 am »
for those who don't know Walker = Musa of Prop&Jet
one of his latest models, Yak-50 interceptor
http://propjet.ucoz.ru/forum/4-4-1
http://www.dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=7450
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 12:02:10 pm by flateric »
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2012, 02:42:35 pm »
Yes it is the master model for casting. Long been in unfinished form. I try to understand, it makes sense to finish and cast kit? What do you think?

I'm not the best person to judge since I never worked on resin models before, only plastic... But for such a beautiful Rutan-related model such as this ARES, I'd be willing to have a go. Any idea of the unit price, even approximative?

Offline Walker

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2012, 03:15:51 pm »
Price near U.S. $ 30. With clear casting canopy. It is cheaper than the Czech manufacturers for example.

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2013, 01:54:57 pm »
Awesome video. Is that me or does the aircraft's nose get thrown around a bit from the recoil? You'd think you'd be limited to short bursts if that were the case. Does anyone have any more info on this?

Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight.  Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.
They put the nose gear assymetrically in A-10 to avoid these problems ARES experienced and rotary cannon in the middle.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 11:12:20 pm by topspeed3 »
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Offline quellish

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2013, 06:07:26 pm »
Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight.  Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.
They put the nose gear assymetrically in A-10 to avoid these problems ARES experienceda and rotary cannon in the middle.

ARES was designed with asymmetry as well to offset recoil. Engine thrust and gun gas were both intended to provide recoil compensation, and the engine was mounted on the opposite side of the fuselage from the gun to prevent gun gas ingestion.

Offline topspeed3

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2013, 11:05:36 pm »
Turbofan Killer Bee: Rutan ARES "Mudfighter" for U.S. Army Close Air Support  B)
Video:

Obviously too much recoil, not enough thrust and definitely not enough weight.  Rutan has obviously made a compromise and the result is a weapon system which might not be quite what its proponents claim.
They put the nose gear assymetrically in A-10 to avoid these problems ARES experienceda and rotary cannon in the middle.

ARES was designed with asymmetry as well to offset recoil. Engine thrust and gun gas were both intended to provide recoil compensation, and the engine was mounted on the opposite side of the fuselage from the gun to prevent gun gas ingestion.

That is correct, but when you see this video closely it was not enuf..plane goes like crazy bronco once they start firing ( at 07:55 of the video ).



« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 11:16:48 pm by topspeed3 »
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Offline perttime

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2013, 11:31:31 pm »
Better hang some small missiles on it, and leave the gun for a backup only. Brimstone?

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2013, 12:05:19 am »
 
That is correct, but when you see this video closely it was not enuf..plane goes like crazy bronco once they start firing ( at 07:55 of the video ).

Yet all the rounds land on target. Engineers: 1, Internet: 0.
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2013, 12:32:21 am »
Yet all the rounds land on target.

So long as the target was the ground surrounding the truck, and not the truck itself...
 
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Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2013, 02:44:53 am »
So long as the target was the ground surrounding the truck, and not the truck itself...

They are falling short in that still which has nothing to do with the yaw brought about by the off axis gun but rather the pilot pressing the trigget a fraction too early.
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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2013, 03:11:44 am »
In any case, I doubt very much that the U.S. Navy or Marine Corps would be looking to use something like the Ares as a cannon-armed gun platform--even the A-10's tank-hunting days are pretty much over.

But an updated Ares-like light ground attack jet, armored against small arms fire, carrying countermeasures against MANPADS and armed with light missiles like the AGM-176 Griffin and guided 2.75 in rockets would be very handy as an inexpensive COIN platform for the USA and allied nations around the world.  A couple of FN Browning M3 .50 caliber machine guns or one three-barreled GAU-19 .50 cal Gatling gun would provide flexibility in engaging thin-skinned ground targets, other aircraft and helicopters.  Air-to-Air Stinger could even be an option.

And you could buy, train, equip and operate a couple of squadrons of them for less than the price of one F-35.  I'm just saying....
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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2013, 03:42:21 am »
So long as the target was the ground surrounding the truck, and not the truck itself...

They are falling short in that still which has nothing to do with the yaw brought about by the off axis gun but rather the pilot pressing the trigget a fraction too early.
Me-109 was designed for the gun..it fired through the propellor hub..with devastating accuracy. Cannon barrel went though the engine literally.
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2013, 10:31:33 am »
So long as the target was the ground surrounding the truck, and not the truck itself...

They are falling short in that still...

Actually, if you watch the video, the rounds are sweeping from side to side just before that still (thus the "wall" of dirt), and then they strike *beyond* the truck. I didn't see *any* rounds actually hit the truck, which kinda dumps all over the claim that every round hit the target.
 
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Offline coanda

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2013, 04:38:10 pm »
I think that it looks a little marginal in yaw, given the aircrafts response to other manouveres.  The nose yaw is obvious in the HUD shots, when the gun fires but it doesn't really rule out the pilot yawing the aircraft to move over the target.

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Offline yasotay

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2014, 07:06:14 am »
Thanks for the link, thise are some great pictures.  Anyone have any idea what the airraft is being used for these days?

Offline quellish

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2014, 06:21:24 pm »
Thanks for the link, thise are some great pictures.  Anyone have any idea what the airraft is being used for these days?


It's been doing a lot of work at Pax River, probably simulating a threat.

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2014, 08:42:08 pm »
Thanks for the link, thise are some great pictures.  Anyone have any idea what the airraft is being used for these days?


It's been doing a lot of work at Pax River, probably simulating a threat.


That Iranian toy looking, mini fighter? 303 something?
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Offline yasotay

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2014, 04:40:43 pm »
Still think the USN Test Pilot School is the most likely candidate.

Offline flateric

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2016, 01:50:27 pm »
...
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Offline RAP

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2018, 03:14:58 pm »
ARES gun installation.

Offline Jeb

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2018, 06:27:37 am »
Kinda stubby barrels, aren't they? No wonder they make such a fireball.

Offline TomS

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2018, 06:53:17 am »
Kinda stubby barrels, aren't they? No wonder they make such a fireball.

They're about 70 calibers long.  Not that short. 

Offline Jeb

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2018, 07:52:42 am »
Kinda stubby barrels, aren't they? No wonder they make such a fireball.

They're about 70 calibers long.  Not that short.

How does that compare to the M61 or GAU-8?

Offline TomS

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2018, 08:23:00 am »
Those are around 76 calibers, so in the same ballpark. 

Of course, that's only half the story; internal ballistics vary between cartridges.  I'm not sure how the 25mm cartridge burns -- it might be all-burnt later than the 20mm and 30mm rounds.  I think the Bushmaster barrel is a bit longer (closer to 80 calibers) so that might be the "natural" barrel length.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 06:44:23 am by TomS »

Offline Dynoman

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2019, 06:42:15 am »
Courtesy of Aviation Archives:

Offline quellish

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Re: Scaled Composites Model 151 ARES
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2019, 10:14:04 am »
https://www.facebook.com/ScaledComposites/posts/10154955770510658

Back in the 90s there were one or two articles about ARES in Sport Aviation, the EAA newsletter/magazine that had some interesting details (and I believe this same illustration)