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Author Topic: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II  (Read 429801 times)

Offline saintkatanalegacy

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2012, 03:01:08 am »
Any pics of competing design(s)?

The competing design is the "Raptorski". Surprise?
風 Swift as the wind
林 Quiet as the forest
火 Conquer like the fire
山 Steady as the mountain

Offline flateric

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2012, 03:56:20 am »
MiG E-721 and alternative Sukhoi designs were not 'raptorski's'
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2012, 04:57:40 am »
MiG E-721 and alternative Sukhoi designs were not 'raptorski's'

Any estimate for how many years I have to wait until I can prove that with my own eyes?

Offline flateric

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2012, 05:34:52 am »
we yet to see 1.42, T-12, T-60S - you continue the list...
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2012, 01:29:48 pm »
Real or CGI/PS-ed  :-\


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Offline flanker

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2012, 03:11:46 pm »
Jesus christ, of course it is CGI and it is old. Really old.
Push the envelope,watch it bend.

Offline chuck4

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2012, 04:55:16 pm »
The more important question is "is it accurate?"


I thought the weapon bays had 4 hard points each.

Offline Geo

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2012, 11:20:54 pm »
MiG E-721 and alternative Sukhoi designs were not 'raptorski's'

Flateric, did you see the E-721 sketch?

Offline saintkatanalegacy

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2012, 02:49:24 am »
The more important question is "is it accurate?"


I thought the weapon bays had 4 hard points each.

2 missiles per main bay.

of course, some will argue they could have easily fitted 3. but requirements are requirements
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Radical

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2012, 12:35:06 pm »
Well, now that we have lots of high-resolution pictures of the T-50 airframe, what are some educated predictions on its aerodynamic performance? How good is it on the area rule? Assuming that the T-50 has the hypothetical engines that match the F119's performance, how does its aerodynamics compare to the F-22's at various speeds and altitudes? Maybe engineers like Sundog can provide some insight?

By looking at the patent, the front section of the fuselage is trapezoidal as it blends with the body instead of tapering. They paid great attention to area rule by making the transition of cross sections as "smooth" as possible so it won't be draggy. So the result is a flat plane. The downside, however, is that it can be structurally risky at the rear section.

The "competing design team" claimed that it was too flimsy and will break if it went supersonic. Of course, we know that the claim was blown out of proportion.

As for the max speed, they somehow reduced the requirement.

It appears that the T-50 shares a lot of features with the YF-23. Lets see if the T-50 can live up to the YF-23's incredible performance in speed.

Also, judging how wide the T-50 is, it looks like it can generate a whole lot of lift. Really wonder what the turn rate is. It might far exceed the F-22.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2012, 01:40:38 pm »
It appears that the T-50 shares a lot of features with the YF-23. Lets see if the T-50 can live up to the YF-23's incredible performance in speed.

1. The YF-23 was WAY cleaner than the T-50.
2. It helps when you have YF119s/YF120s in the back end.


Also, judging how wide the T-50 is, it looks like it can generate a whole lot of lift. Really wonder what the turn rate is. It might far exceed the F-22.

But can it out turn an AIM-9X.  One would guess the answer is somewhere between "no" and "hell no".  [/quote]
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Radical

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2012, 02:37:21 pm »
It appears that the T-50 shares a lot of features with the YF-23. Lets see if the T-50 can live up to the YF-23's incredible performance in speed.

1. The YF-23 was WAY cleaner than the T-50.
2. It helps when you have YF119s/YF120s in the back end.

Clean isn't everything. Also, let's leave engines out of this, since I'm talking strictly about the merits of the T-50's aerodynamic shape. It has a similar layout to the YF-23 and that may be an indication that the T-50 conforms to the area rule very well. If we assume that the T-50 is using the hypothetical F119 equivalent that's being developed, it may meet or exceed the F-22's current speed performance. This is just my conjecture. Perhaps an aerospace engineer can provide more insight on this.

Quote
Also, judging how wide the T-50 is, it looks like it can generate a whole lot of lift. Really wonder what the turn rate is. It might far exceed the F-22.

But can it out turn an AIM-9X.  One would guess the answer is somewhere between "no" and "hell no". 

I'm trying to talk about aerodynamic performance of the aircraft shape, not missiles. The Russians also have high off-boresight missiles. In any case, I'm just postulating that the wide fuselage of the T-50 seems to indicate that it generates lots of lift and it may exceed the F-22 in turning performance.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 02:39:57 pm by Radical »

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2012, 05:49:10 pm »
The more important question is "is it accurate?"


I thought the weapon bays had 4 hard points each.

2 missiles per main bay.

of course, some will argue they could have easily fitted 3. but requirements are requirements

Well, the new generation of folding fin <700 kgw weapons (ultra long range AAMs, guided bombs, antiship missiles etc...) all seem to mysteriously be the same size as each other and perfectly match the dimensions of each of the four bay doors...

What are the exact requirements? I missed this being published! I personally like Paralay's layout (central 700kg mount, with 350kg mounts on either side - would allow modification to cary a 1500kg munition internally as well).

Offline Trident

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2012, 07:34:47 pm »
1. The YF-23 was WAY cleaner than the T-50.
How so? It got rid of two tail surfaces but that's about it, in many other ways there is indeed a resemblance between the two. Moreover, although this is an inaccurate indicator, the T-50 probably has a smaller frontal area thanks to its straight inlet ducts and reduced vertical tail size.

But can it out turn an AIM-9X.  One would guess the answer is somewhere between "no" and "hell no". 
It doesn't need to - it will likely be fitted with DIRCM from the start.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 07:36:19 pm by Trident »

Offline chuck4

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Re: Sukhoi T-50 Su-50 PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2012, 11:00:29 pm »
Couldn't f-22's huge flat bottom also act as an enormous lifting surface at high AOA to help it turn just like the wide fuselage of the t-50?


Seems to me f-22's elevators, being further behing the engines and center of gravity and lift, would also have greater pitch authority. 


Also, one of the advantages of f-22 is not that it's absolute maximum sustained turn rate was higher than anything else.   Instead it could sustain a high turn rate over a greater range of altitudes and airspeeds.   So can the T-50 match f-22's turn rate at speeds and altitudes where f-22 would most prefer?