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Author Topic: Napier Nomad Engine Data  (Read 16174 times)

Offline cjfield

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 02:55:34 am »
This is all really useful stuff, thank you very much guys!

tartle - this is very interesting and quote close to the Nomad quoted figures. I'll have a look.

red admiral - I don't suppose it is recorded which Metrovick F2 this map is from? According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan-Vickers_F.2, it could the be F.2 Freda, F.2/2, F.2/3 or F.2/4 Beryl, the latter having a very different compressor and is probably closer to the vintage of the Nomad.


Offline tartle

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 06:14:37 am »
If you look in IMechE Proceedings 1945 vol153 pages 411-426 Hayne Constant's paper includes the Ch'ics for Freda and Sarah which should help you determine where the anonymous F2 set belongs.
"... prototypes are a way of letting you think out loud. You want the right people to think aloud with you. - Paul MacCready, aeronautical engineer.

Offline red admiral

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 02:45:31 pm »
The text is noncomittal unfortunately but mostly talks about the F2/1 as mounted on the Meteor. As can be noted from the diagram tartle posted, there was significant wartime development of the F2 compressor even before getting to the F2/4 Beryl.

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2012, 02:17:52 am »
Freda? Beryl?

Fascinating nomenclature story.... Were the Metrovick people naming their engines after their girlfriends, until the establishment imposed a normal engine naming convention (ie Rolls recips=raptors, Bristol engines=Roman gods) and called the follow-on Sapphire?

Offline red admiral

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 02:21:18 pm »
Fascinating nomenclature story.... Were the Metrovick people naming their engines after their girlfriends, until the establishment imposed a normal engine naming convention (ie Rolls recips=raptors, Bristol engines=Roman gods) and called the follow-on Sapphire?

Well to fair, Beryl was also named for the stone as the first production engine. Not sure about Freda... but that line seems to have started with "Anne" and then moved onto "Betty", with "Alice" "Ruth" "Edith" and "Doris" along the way.

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 06:36:00 am »
It would be fascinating if Beryl had started as someone's wife/gf/favorite barmaid, at which point some Prodnose from The Ministry said "I say, that isn't quite the thing" and some smarta**e said "Oh no, Mr Prodnose, it's a semi-precious stone and the next engine's called Sapphire".

The fact that the previous engines were all women's names, and Beryl happens to be both a then-popular name and a stone, is suggestive....

Offline CJGibson

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2012, 06:52:09 am »
Could be worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fubarite

Which could be applied to many UK aerospace projects.

Chris

Offline tartle

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2012, 02:28:16 am »
The nomenclature of engines was agreed with the Air Ministry.. in order help people know the origins of the powerplants. The RAE somehow started to name their compressor/turbine projects using women's names.. maybe stage/movie stars??...  to differentiate the projects from industry.
The sequence went Anne, Alice, Betty, Doris, Ruth, Edith, Freda, Sarah. Sarah was the basis of the Armstrong Siddeley snakes -Adder/Python; Metrovick went bejewelled with Freda becoming Beryl and led to Sapphire, also RR Clyde (river class); Edith may have led to Nomad; and Bristol picked up on Sarah etc to yield the Gods Theseus/Proteus etc.










"... prototypes are a way of letting you think out loud. You want the right people to think aloud with you. - Paul MacCready, aeronautical engineer.

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2012, 09:09:19 am »
They were a randy bunch of lads at RAE, they were.

Offline CJGibson

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2012, 11:02:52 am »
By the early Fifties the effects of the bromide in the wartime tea was wearing off.

I recall that the RAE's projects in the Sixties had Shakespearean names, Falstaff etc. Apparently Puck was frowned upon.

Chris

Offline Harrier

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2012, 12:20:51 pm »
It's a shame they were not inspired to name one Beatrice after the most famous female at the RAE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrice_Shilling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Shilling's_orifice
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 12:27:38 pm by harrier »
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline CJGibson

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2013, 12:24:09 pm »
Thought this might be of interest in a Nomad thread as it tweaked my curiosity.

Last time I was rummaging in Kew, I found a reference to a couple of R-R Griffon developments, but could find no more info on these. The file was Avia 54/100 on the R2/48 flying boat and it appears from the file that the Griffon was modified with turbo-compound equipment a la R-5330, and called the Compound Griffon (RGC.30.SM). This was cancelled in 1949 and replaced by the Turbo Griffon (RGT.30.SM) that was along similar lines to the Napier Nomad. (in the file the designations are reversed, but RRHT put me right)

I've seen mentions of a Turbo-Griffon in Flight, but despite a few enquires with the usual suspects, no further details have turned up.

Anyone aware of a Rolls-Royce Nomad-esque project? I believe the Crecy was to have such turbomachinery, but the Griffon was a surprise.

I'll be pursuing this next trip south.

Thanks

Chris

Offline GTX

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2013, 12:34:13 pm »
Interesting Chris.  Keen to hear more.

Offline Johnbr

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2013, 01:29:07 pm »
+1

Offline tartle

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Re: Napier Nomad Engine Data
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2013, 02:05:15 pm »
It is logical that there would have been a project at RR.... the Nomad was developed for Shackleton which was a Griffon powered aircraft. So RR would have also put up an offer to compete with Napier and given the timescale and priorities I would guess they would have scaled the Crecy turbo supercharger to suit Griffon... and Crecy s/c was designed to deliver power to prop shaft... so one of us will get to Kew and be able to share the post soup research (good value in cafe on site!).
"... prototypes are a way of letting you think out loud. You want the right people to think aloud with you. - Paul MacCready, aeronautical engineer.