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Author Topic: Japanese Navy competition programs  (Read 19580 times)

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 04:40:25 pm »
There were quite a few mistakes and omissions so I reworked the first page with as much accuracy as possible. If you can add or correct, feel free to do so!

Meanwhile, here is a list of IJN types for which there is either no designation and/or no identified competition and/or no date.

  • Aichi AB-10 [D1A2] Type 96 Carrier Bomber ("Susie") (a derivative of the Type 94 or D1A)
  • Kyushu Nankai [Q3W] Patrol Plane
  • Mitsubishi MC-20-II [L4M] Type 0 Transport ("Topsy")
  • Mitsubishi [G6M] Long Range Heavy Fighter (Wingtip Convoy Fighter)
  • Mitsubishi Yasukuni (modification of Army Ki-67 "Peggy")
  • Mitsubishi Tozan Attack Plane
  • Mitsubishi Shūsui Kai [J8M3] Experimental Long-Range Interceptor Fighter (similar to Ki-202)
  • Mitsubishi Karigane Carrier Reconnaissance Plane
  • Kawanishi Baika Special Attack
  • Nakajima [A4N] Type 95 Carrier Fighter
  • Nakajima [L1N] Type 97 Transport ("Thora") (same as the Army Ki-34)
  • Nakajima (Showa) Tōka Special Attack (similar to Army Ki-115 Tsurugi)
  • Nakajima Fugaku [G10N] Super Heavy Bomber
  • Nihon Kogata K-14 Kirigamine Primary Trainer Glider
  • Sova [L2D] Type D > Type 0 Transport ("Tabby") (a licensed Douglas DC-3)
  • Tokyo Electric KR-2 [LXG] Passenger Transport
  • Yokosuka [K5Y "Aka-Tombo"] Type 93 Intermediate / Advanced Trainer ("Willow")
  • Yokosuka [L3Y] Type 96 Transport ("Tina") (conversions of G3M "Nell" aircraft)
  • Yokosuka Myōjo Kai [D5Y] Special Attack
  • Yokosuka (Mizuno) Shinryū Special Attack Glider
  • Yokosuka Tenga Bomber
  • Yokosuka Funryū Rocket Missile
  • Yokosuka K-15 Special Trainer Glider
NOTES:
  • Yokosuka also variously appears as Yosho, Yokosho, Kusho or Kugisho
  • Only the period ranging from 1932 (7-Shi) to 1945 has been covered so far
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 04:43:28 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2011, 05:08:44 pm »
Addendum #1:
Foreign types evaluated experimentally by the IJN

  • AXB.....Type B Experimental Carrier Fighter = Boeing Model 100 (civilian F4B)
  • AXD.....Type D Carrier Fighter = Dewoitine D.510
  • AXG.....Type G Carrier Fighter = Canadian Car & Foundry (Grumman) GE-23 Goblin
  • AXH.....Type H Carrier Fighter = Hawker Nimrod
  • AXHe...Type He Interceptor Fighter = Heinkel He 100D-0
  • AXV.....Type V Interceptor Fighter = Vought V-143
  • A7He...Type He Air Defense Fighter = Heinkel He 112B-0 ("Jerry")
  • A8V.....Type S Two-seat Fighter = Seversky 2PA-B3  ("Dick")
                (note: last two designations completely illogical...)
  • BXN.....Type N? Carrier Attack Bomber = Northrop Gamma 2E
  • CXP.....Type P? Reconnaissance Plane = Potez (no details)
  • DXD.....Type D Attack Plane = Douglas DB-19
  • DXHe...Type He Attack Plane = Heinkel He 118 V4
  • HXC.....Type C Flying Boat= Consolidated 22 Ranger (P2Y-1)
  • HXD.....Type D Flying Boat = Douglas DF-151
  • HXP.....Type P Flying Boat = Potez Type 452
  • KXA.....Type A Intermediate Trainer = North American NA-16-4R (NA-37) and NA-16-4RW (NA-47)
  • KXBu...Type Bu Primary Trainer = Bücker Bü 131 Jungmann
  • KXC.....Type C Trainer = Caudron C.601 Aiglon Senior
  • KXHe...Type He Trainer = Heinkel He 72l
  • KXJ.....Type J Trainer = Junkers A.50
  • KXL.....Type L Trainer = Lockheed Model 10 Electra
  • LXC.....Type C Amphibious Transport = Curtiss-Wright CA-1 Commuter (a.k.a. "Courtney Amphibian")
  • LXD.....Type D Transport = Douglas DC-4E
  • LXF.....Type F Amphibious Transport = Fairchild A-942 Amphibion
  • LXG.....Type G Amphibious Transport = Grumman G-21 Goose
  • LXHe...Type He Transport= Heinkel He 70
  • LXJ.....Type J Transport = Junkers Ju 160
  • LXJ.....Type J Transport = Junkers Ju 86
  • LXK.....Type K Transport = Kinner C-7 Envoy
  • LXM.....Type M Transport = Airspeed AS-6 Envoy
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 05:11:26 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 02:12:08 pm »
As of today I've introduced a new feature to this thread — one that demands a lot of effort but which I believe will really make the visit worthwhile: comparative color profiles for each competition. Please go and check the first page for the first three years!

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 09:25:48 pm »
Really great and absolutely worthwhile indeed ! Many thanks Stéphan !
Some of those comparisons seem to indicate, that conservatism prevailed
amongst the leadership of the Japanese Navy, too.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2011, 03:52:04 pm »
Really great and absolutely worthwhile indeed ! ...

Seconded!  Cheers Stéphane!

Offline Maveric

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2011, 11:37:45 am »
Great work Stéphane! THANKS!
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

Offline Arjen

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 12:36:37 am »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2013, 03:39:10 am »
I have removed the incorrect reference to the G9K for the 17-Shi Attack fighter.

Meanwhile, there are still quite a few types without any known competition.

See if you could add by checking this post:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13972.msg137533.html#msg137533

Offline DWG

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 05:31:28 pm »
11試 陸上作業練習機    11-Shi Crew Trainer (1936)
  • Mitsubishi Ka-18 [K7M] > resubmitted in 14-Shi Land-Based Trainer competition
I notice this doesn't seem to have a corresponding entry under the 14-Shi section, or indeed any later section.

Offline DWG

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 05:40:03 pm »
17試 局地戦闘機    17-Shi Interceptor Fighter (1942)
  • Kawanishi K-90 (KX-2) [J3K] (replaced by J6K version)
  • Mitsubishi M-70 [J4M Senden, also found as Jinrai] ("Luke") (project only)
18試 局地戦闘機    18-Shi Interceptor Fighter (1943)
  • Nakajima [J5N Tenrai]
  • Kawanishi [J6K Jinpu]
  • Kyushu [J7W Shinden][/l][/l]
I notice the standard designation system seems to completely break down with the last two interceptor competitions, a possible indication that we're missing later revised specifications/competitions within 17-Shi and 18-Shi?[/list]

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2013, 01:33:52 am »
I notice this doesn't seem to have a corresponding entry under the 14-Shi section, or indeed any later section.

True. This is probably some unknown competing design in the 14-Shi Land-based Intermediate Trainer that was won by the Kyushu K10W.

I notice the standard designation system seems to completely break down with the last two interceptor competitions, a possible indication that we're missing later revised specifications/competitions within 17-Shi and 18-Shi?

You are absolutely right. I noticed that too. I believe these were all submitted to slightly different requirements, some of which have been lost.

After researching the subject some more lately, I found a couple of subtle differences for at least J4M and J6K:
  • J3K = Kawanishi K-90 (KX-2) = a high-altitude fighter tested only as the 17-Shi Interceptor.
  • J4M Senden = Mitsubishi M-70 = a tailboom pusher submitted as the 17-Shi Otsu-Type [Type B] Interceptor but not built.
  • J5N Tenrai = Nakajima B-29 interceptor, tested as an 18-Shi Interceptor, with six prototypes built.
  • J6K Jinpu = Kawanishi reworking of the J3K submitted as the 18-Shi Experimental Interceptor — only a mockup built because of the success of the N1K2-J.
  • J7W Shinden = Kyushu canard pusher tested as another 18-Shi Interceptor — two prototypes built.
  • J8M Shūsui = Mitsubishi rocket fighter, a copy of the Messerschmitt Me 163 tested as the 19-Shi Experimental Interceptor — 8 built.
As all these aircraft clearly showed different design philosophies, missions and configurations, it is highly likely that the requirements were all different.
What we need here is someone absolutely fluent in Japanese to give us more clues as to what exactly the Type A, B and C prefixes meant (I thought it meant, A = carrier fighter, B = Interceptor and C = Night Fighter, but I may be wrong).

Offline Robert

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2013, 05:20:46 am »
Otsu does not equal "B," even though it is often translated into English as such. It's actually from an ordering scheme based on the Japanese zodiac. http://www.hud607.fire.prohosting.com/uncommon/reference/japan/calendar.html#zodiac
Source: http://japanlifeandreligion.com/2009/01/12/the-japanese-zodiac
 

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2013, 05:26:30 am »
Otsu does not equal "B," even though it is often translated into English as such.

Yes, but even Japanese sources (Japanese books with English captions) offer that translation.

Online Tzoli

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Re: Japanese Navy competition programs
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2018, 07:52:20 am »
So according to every sources the last navy ship launched recon and spotter aircrafts of the IJN were the F1M Reikan / Pete, E15K Shiun / Norm and the E16A Zuiun / Paul
Am I correct? No sources describes any new such aircraft designs and proposals?