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Author Topic: Postwar Burnelli Designs  (Read 19156 times)

Offline hesham

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Postwar Burnelli Designs
« on: August 26, 2008, 04:37:32 am »
Hi,

who know more info about those two Burnelli projects ?,notice that the first
aircraft was different from CBY-03,a real aircraft.
http://www.meridian-int-res.com/Aeronautics/Burnelli_AIAA.pdf

Offline hesham

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Re: Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2008, 04:09:21 am »

Offline hesham

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Offline lark

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Re: Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 09:40:17 am »
Study II is the Burnelli GB-171 presented to the Pentagon in 1961.

(AAHS Journal Spring 1997)

Offline Triton

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Re: Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 03:11:02 pm »
Artist's impression of Burnelli GB-888A (1964)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 11:46:09 pm by Triton »

Offline The Artist

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Re: Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2010, 09:34:00 pm »
I found these two pages from an old Air Trails magazine (August 1951) in my scrap files. This seemed to be a better place for them than the newer Flying Flattops thread.
"Thank you for summing that up."

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Offline Triton

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Re: Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 10:56:49 pm »
Artist's concept of Burnelli fighter design circa 1948.

Source: http://www.teuton.org/dbarnett/strange.htm

Offline Triton

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Re: Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 11:14:24 pm »
Artist's concept of Burnelli aircraft appearing in Mechanix Illustrated December 1946.

Source: http://www.burnelli.com/wp/

Offline Triton

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Re: Re: Burnelli projects
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2010, 11:38:00 am »
Artist's concept of Burnelli car ferry circa 1952.

Source:http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/chrono2.htm

Offline Burnelli Support Group

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Postwar Burnelli Designs
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2011, 07:59:25 pm »
I had not seen these Boeing designs either.  They are very cool for the time.  The thing is, they are still tube and wing designs without tails.  Here is one Boeing design that deviates from the tube and wing in a radical and proven way.  Check out this report from Boeing's archive of wind tunnel models.  http://www.king5.com/news/business/Boeing-planes-that-never-flew-116515378.html   

The page is titled "Boeing planes that never flew."  Before starting the video you'll see the plane I'm referring to, the International Husky or Boeing 754.  The w/t tests showed beyond doubt that this design could carry 2 to 2 1/2 times the load of a 767 over the same distance using the same amount of fuel, e.g., at least twice the fuel economy per pound of cargo.

The only reason this was never built was that the owner of the design, The Burnelli Company, requested that Boeing pay a 1% licencing fee for use of the patented design.  Boeing refused to pay and dismantled the airframe, of which they had already invested several million dollars.  Never made any sense to me why they would do such a thing.  This happened in the mid-70s and cost, not so much Boeing but all air cargo companies that used Boeing planes, BILLIONS in profits in the decades since.  What a waste.

You can see the history of The Burnelli Company that dates back to the first "Lifting Fuselage" aircraft of 1921 by Texas aviation pioneer, Vincent Justus Burnelli, to his last design before his death in 1964.  Go to burnelli.com and check it out.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 03:39:30 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Postwar Burnelli Designs
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2011, 05:15:10 am »
The only reason this was never built was that the owner of the design, The Burnelli Company, requested that Boeing pay a 1% licencing fee for use of the patented design.  Boeing refused to pay and dismantled the airframe, of which they had already invested several million dollars.  Never made any sense to me why they would do such a thing.  This happened in the mid-70s and cost, not so much Boeing but all air cargo companies that used Boeing planes, BILLIONS in profits in the decades since.  What a waste.

Thanks for your contribution and welcome to this forum. The Burnelli patent question is one that has always created heated debate, as the defenders of Burnelli's designs are often viewed by some (even on this forum) as blind fundamentalists... Their reasoning is: "If that kind of configuration was so good, how come it has never made it to production form on any aircraft?" I for one have always given Burnelli's work a lot of credit and I'm glad you can finally confirm that, not only the Boeing Model 754 was INDEED built to a Burnelli patent design, but also that Boeing was a little more serious about the program that with many other projects.

Yet if I follow what you said here, Boeing had already BUILT a Model 754 airframe???

I have never heard about this before. Do you have any evidence of this? I sure would love to see pics.

As to the question of the fee, I agree that it makes absolutely NO sense that a mere 1% would be enough to make Boeing shy out and let millions go to waste. Makes me wonder if there wasn't something else there.

Offline DSE

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Re: Postwar Burnelli Designs
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2011, 02:08:27 pm »
You can see the history of The Burnelli Company that dates back to the first "Lifting Fuselage" aircraft of 1921 by Texas aviation pioneer, Vincent Justus Burnelli, to his last design before his death in 1964.  Go to burnelli.com and check it out.

One would appear have much better luck with http://www.burnelli.com Much different IP addresses and response.

Name:    burnelli.com
Address:  109.164.249.126


Name:    www.burnelli.com
Address:  69.89.20.57

Offline Burnelli Support Group

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Re: Postwar Burnelli Designs
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 09:46:22 am »
Thanks for the input Stargazer.  Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner on your question. 
 
Here's proof of Boeing's interest in making this plane for Cargolux.  http://www.airlinereporter.com/2011/03/video-a-look-at-boeing-planes-never-made-in-the-archive/  This wind tunnel model of Boeing's International Husky was recently uncovered late 2010 by a reporter doing a story on Boeing's model archive.  You don't spend thousands of dollars to build a scaled, wind tunnel model unless you have more than a passing interest in a plane design.  This model gave Boeing the numbers that are posted here... http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/cnsp8a.htm  These came from an anonymous, Boeing employee who was sympathetic to the Burnelli Company.
 
Of course it can't be proven that Boeing had already started the mockup.  The reason the Burnelli Company found out about the build is that a friend of the Burnelli Company was also a friend of someone working on the Boeing mockup.  This person invited his friend to see what they were doing at Boeing.  This person recognized the frame as a Burnelli design and called the Burnelli Company soon after his visit to Boeing.  As a result, there was the patent dispute plus Boeing didn't want to be associated with the negative history of Burnelli.  Also know that Boeing makes profit from selling planes, no matter what plane they sell.  It was the customer, not Boeing, that lost in this poor decision.

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Postwar Burnelli Designs
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 10:53:06 am »

 You don't spend thousands of dollars to build a scaled, wind tunnel model unless you have more than a passing interest in a plane design. 

 
Do you have any idea how many wind tunnel models have been made? Specifically, how many *thousands* of configurations that have been tested, and then never developed any further?
 


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Offline Nik

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Re: Postwar Burnelli Designs
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 11:05:45 am »
IIRC, Burnelli designs had ample tail and elevator surface, set at adequate 'moment', perhaps to offset the tendency of any wing-body to side-slip or 'swerve', especially in ground effect...


Though I'm no fundamentalist, I'm still sorry that the only 'Burnelli' which saw a lot of 'real' work was the licensed one-off used by DeGaulle to rally the FreeFrench...


Hmm. If Burnelli did fall out with Boeing, it might account for the virtual garlic nailed over many doors...