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Author Topic: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects  (Read 25438 times)

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2011, 09:23:49 am »
Possibly Hesham, but I'm confused; isn't the SNCASE SE.2000 in your list the original design for the SNCASE SE.2010 Armagnac airliner ????

Terry (Caravellarella)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 03:08:36 pm by Caravellarella »
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline toura

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2011, 09:28:16 am »
My poor Hesham !
It is VERY COMPLICATED !!!!
Me I have an Arsenal vg 50 passengers transport !!!!

Offline hesham

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2011, 04:38:39 pm »
Thank you my dears Caravellarella and Toura,

but nothing we gain,in Wikipedia,I found anther article about the same
subject,may be it will help.

(The project SO.71 was developed to meet the specifications B6/R61. In this competition, which took place in 1944/1945, the project was opposed SNCASO among other North 1800, SNCAC NC.200 at SNCASE SE.2000 and Arsenal VG.50. SNCASO for this project is the study of basa SO.70, started under the German occupation. It consisted of a four-engine long-haul whose studies and the construction of two prototypes had been the subject of two formal markets (2092/43 and 4477/44).
Despite its significant armament, the design seemed obsolete vis-à-vis the project proposed by the SNCAN. The project was therefore dismissed and suspended credit end of 1946.).

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCASO_SO.71
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 06:23:30 am by hesham »

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2011, 05:30:10 pm »
toura's scan is from http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/arsenal_de_l_aeronautique.pdf

That L’Arsenal de l’aéronautique article mentions the VG 50 transatlantic project. If I understand correctly, the original VG 50 was to be a "four-engined" aircraft powered by 2000 hp Clerget 16H valveless turbo-diesels. Two Clerget engines were tested at Orléans-Bricy in June 1940.

In reality, the "four-engined" VG 50 was to be an eight-engined aircraft. Vernisse planned the eight Clerget 16Hs to be mounted in tandem pairs driving contra-rotating propellers through concentric propeller shafts. The goal, I infer, was to have the power of eight engines but the frontal area of only four. (The same solution was later applied to the twin-engined VG-10 project and built VB-10 fighter.)

Is it possible that Arsenal's answer to B6/R61 was a militarized version of that VG 50 airliner?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 07:53:12 pm by Apophenia »

Offline roadrunner2

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2013, 05:44:20 am »
where can I find plan of this 2 gliders?
I've see them but dont remember where....
below a photo of the Ars 2301, the 1301 is the same aircraft with a swepwing instead the delta.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 07:07:06 am by roadrunner2 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2013, 07:50:39 am »
After looking at the picture, I realised we already had something in another topic, so I merged the two for now.

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2013, 08:57:54 pm »

below a photo of the Ars 2301, the 1301 is the same aircraft with a swepwing instead the delta.
Hmm. It is the reverse.


Offline Jemiba

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 02:52:10 am »
where can I find plan of this 2 gliders?

If you can wait until about tomorrow evening, I think I'll have at least basic drawings of both
versions, although no "plans", which would be suitable to be easily transferred maybe into a
flying model. I've already made them years ago, but they aren't of a kind, that would dare
to post today.   ::)   So, I decided to rework them completely.
As an example the nearly finished side view of the 1301.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline roadrunner2

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 02:57:21 am »
Great.  ;)

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2013, 05:48:02 am »
Ok, here are the drawings, main sources were Fayer "Les Prototypes des Aviation Francaise" and
Kaplan/Ricco "Gerfaut et Griffon".
Main dimensions are known, but proportions/details taken from the available photos, so: Source
grade 2, at best 2.5 only ! As always, clues and critics welcome, who's interested can get the
vector graphic files for inprovement.

 
EDIT : Drawings modified, 05.06.2013
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 03:14:13 am by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline richard

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2013, 07:39:39 am »
Arsenal projested a supersonic rocket fighter inspired by the german D.F.S 346 .
The SFECMAS 2301 was a full scale flying mockup , later fitted with a delta wing .


Here the first step between the D.F.S 346 and the Gerfaut :


« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 09:20:13 am by richard »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2013, 07:51:13 am »
Ok, here are the drawings, main sources were Fayer "Les Prototypes des Aviation Francaise" and
Kaplan/Ricco "Gerfaut et Griffon".

Precious work! Thanks a lot for your efforts.

Offline roadrunner2

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2013, 02:08:53 am »
Fabulous !! :)
many thanks
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 06:22:54 am by roadrunner2 »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2013, 11:21:25 am »
I should add, that the two pages in the Fayer book are describing both variants under just
one heading "Arsenal 2301/SFECMAS 1301", giving just one figure for length and wing span.
Fuselage and tail seems not to have been changed, span seems to be very similar, to my
opinion the swept wing of the 1301 had just a little bigger wingspan, but this impression
may be wrong. If someone has precise data for both variants, I would like to incorporate
them into the drawings.

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline roadrunner2

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Re: Arsenal de l'aéronautique ("Arsenal") projects
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2013, 02:30:34 pm »
I think the fuselage section was circular. Like teh DSF-346. The 1301 was only a french glider version of it.