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Author Topic: MiG-29 Avionics  (Read 40449 times)

Offline Dilbert

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2007, 05:48:45 pm »
PiBu - welcome, and thanks for sharing such a rare photo!  Not to go far off-topic, can you briefly comment whether that Su-25 was still able to carry, aim and drop bombs at the same time while it was carrying that pod?  My documentation indicates that it's an exclusive payload.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 05:40:40 am by Dilbert »

Offline shkval

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2007, 06:56:16 pm »
N019M1 is the last variety of the N019 radar family.But there is few info on this radar,I've never heard that the radar has fitted on any aircraft.I want to know that had any N019M1 been made and used on any aircraft ????Could somebody tell me this?TIA! :)

Offline Miguel Aresta

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2014, 06:35:51 am »
Greetings to everyone!I've just signed up in the forum because  I research a lot about aviation topics,I'm especially interested in Soviet aircraft and their avionics,since there's a lot of people here with similar interests it's always good to exchange ideas and make some doubts vanish..
Does anyone have a photo on the "mysterious"  Soyuz radar ? The one from the Soyuz programme headed by NPO Istok ..
Also,is it true that the MiG-29's RLPK-29 has overloading problems in some modes (which?SNP?) ,does it has to do with the Ts-100 ? According to the SUV-29E manual there are other computers involved in the system but the Ts-100 seems to be the radar signal processor indeed.
Does the Su-27 also have these problems? It would be nice to open a topic on the Flanker's avionics
Thanks

Offline LukaszK

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2018, 10:01:47 am »
Greetings Everyone!

This page share my long interests in aviation and especially avionics.
It is source of valuable information for me for years.
From this point - I want to thank for that. Especially thanks for Overscann - (starting from his original page for Russian avionics).

But it is first time I post here. I logged here especially to share some file I found some time ago. This is some lectures related to Russian avionics system.
One of them is related to Mig-29 radar (there are also some words related to N-001, but as we all know - there share many components in in many respects are identical).

Lectures are in Ukrainian language. It is similar to Russian, but differs in many respects.

Ok,  here is link to ppt for RLPK-29 (radar of Mig)
https://studfiles.net/preview/5383872/

For whole lectures see https://studfiles.net/nau/145/folder:11012/#5383849
Find module: военка
and there modules :модуль 1, 2, 3

Lot of interesting stuff there like radio, radio links, radio - directional finers (it means ARK-19,22 etc) and similar stuff.
This is of course lectures, but many details avaiable.

Some facts from lectures (that I understood), about radar of Mig-29:

1) It can not be said that this is purely analog design. It is controlled by computer, but also it signal processing include digital processing.

Comment: Is seems natural, as processing of signal with intermediate repetition frequency is very difficult , if even possible in analog manner.
That is why the reason why Hugues win over Westinghouse for radar for F-15 (more sophisticated processing). And also why APG-9, pure analog design can work only in high repetition frequency mode
that has limited applicability over land in rear hemisphere
   
2)  For tracking (SST mode)- there are  completely different  circuits, but finally tracking could be done with great precision (probably) even in high repetition frequency mode

3) Guard channel (called here - compensation channel) - seems to be triggered manually. It was somehow unexpected to me. It uses some resources of  radar (digital filters) - so probably it results in slighty degradation of performance.
4) TWS mode - it seems to not use mono-pulse method for measuring angles of target.
Comment: According to I read (it might be not correct)- TWS in western radars is called as plot tracking with using mono-pulse angle measuring. But I do not find any description of western radar to compare.
It seems that there is no time to make additional two scans (vertical , horizontal) - as object within beam (beam 3.5 degree, scanning rate about 57 degrees / s or about 70 - so only 60ms over target, with radar cycle 10ms. And all processing have to be done in that time (It means 3 scanning for High PRF, and several scanning with different PRF for Med PRF, simple no time for monopulse filtering)
In RLPK TWS in this radar is based on plots, refresh rate is about 3.6 sec (depending on scanning mode) - so generally is not very.
Anyway - as we know in Mig-29 all that information is not exploited very clever - maybe only to find the top priority target and switch automatically to SST
(in Su-27 it is better exploited, at least positions, headings and altitude is encoded in target symbol)

5) command for R-27 are passed in 3 state code  (like binary, but with 3 not 2 state)

And many others...


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2018, 01:06:38 pm »
Interesting - will have to post English translations!
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline LukaszK

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2018, 03:04:58 pm »
I will provide translations to English when  I have some free time. Maybe some first slides tomorrow.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2018, 06:02:10 pm »
Google Translate did a pretty good job of autotranslation, just a little fixup required.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline LukaszK

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2018, 09:44:51 am »
So first important slides..

Slide 4
General characteristics of RLPK  Designation, composition and TTX complex
Destination of  RLPK 27 and RLPK-29
1. Search, Detection, Coarse Coordinate Measurement, and Definition of State Belonging (IFF)
2. Support "on the pass" (SNP) to 10 goals, their ranking on the predicted time of meeting with the goal, the issuance of recommendations for selecting the target for the attack.
(Comment: SNP -> track while scan)
3. Tracking of one target with precisely determining of coordinates, sufficient for: targeting of homing missiles, and their preparation for launch.
4. Calculation of the launch zone, issuing a command to start, illuminating the target. formation and transmission of radio correction commands.
5 Exit the attack.

Composition of the RLPC:
pulsed Doppler radar H-001 or H-019;
Specialized ЦОМОМ (computer) Ц100 with the input-output device Н001-35.

Slide 5

The main units are RLPK-29

H019-01 - Antenna-wave system.
Н019-11 - antenna control and synchronization control unit.
H019-02 - Transmitter
Н001-22М - a set generator. (comment: waveform generator
H019-09 - High Frequency Receiver.
H019-03 - receiver.
H001-25 - information conversion unit.
Н001-35 - I / O block.
Н001-45 - communication block with the CEI. (SEI -it means integrated system of display)
 Н019-05 - ЦЕОМ Ц-100.02.01.
 Н019-60 - antenna-feeder device pylon.
(Comment: probably device to provide signal to R-27R misile)
 Н019-18 - block of transformation of one-time commands.

RLPK interacts with OEPRNK (IR passive targeting -: KOLS), CEI, on-board equipment of command radio transmission lines for guidance (datalink), requesting system of state recognition (IFF), with onboard electronic equipment

Offline LukaszK

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2018, 02:19:27 pm »
Well... translating all this will take me some time...
I stuck on tables - as there is no option to
paste them here... Maybe there is possible to translate the document in ppt form and then share somehow?

To put sth in topic... as reference I put block diagram I found some time ago.  It refers to N-001 but at least on the "block level"
both radar seems to be very similar...

Please note that N-001 uses slightly different computer:
C-100-03-03 insted -02-02.


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2018, 03:13:36 pm »
I'll do a machine translation and post it here. Save you some time :)
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline LukaszK

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2018, 09:58:36 pm »
If you manage to use Google translate that is definitely better. My experience with translation of the whole document was moderate. But this is for sure faster.


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2018, 04:10:25 am »
Here's the work in progress
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline LukaszK

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2018, 06:20:01 am »
Great results Overscan!
One remark according to page I put link, (Maybe it is obvious, If yes - sorry for such low level of remark ;-) )
It is possible to download ppt file . In preview of file on that page - formatting of all diagrams in ppt is not correct.
Personally I download all content of those lectures  B)

Offline stealthflanker

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2018, 11:46:42 pm »
Interesting. so the N019 has 6.5 kW instead of 4 kW of peak power. and 960 doppler filters. It also interesting to see the detection and tracking criteria being related to probability (detection is 0.5/50% while tracking is 90%)

Great find LukaszK and nice translation Overscan.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: MiG-29 Avionics
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2018, 05:21:31 am »
Yes, I'm using the PPT version. I will upload the PPT version if you want to correct it :)

Having done machine translation before on this very subject, I know some of the trickier terms and can tidy up the translation somewhat.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm