Chengdu J-20 news and analysis Part III

[Deino]

The drones are definitely CGI.

Certainly looks like CGI, let’s wait and see what Deino has to say about them.

I think it is so much obvious that these are all only CGs ... in fact I don't understand all these doubts.

I wonder why China is bothering to put out CGI images when it is so blatantly obvious that they are, it just gets so annoying.

Simply since no real images available, since it is not "China" which is using such "blatantly obvious" images, but CCTV and most likely the reported who made this TV-report used them since they are fancy.

I think we need to differ between something "official" from a Chinese authority like CAC, AVIC or the PLAAF or "official" from CCTV, which is in no way an official announcement of some sort, but just a report that does not contradict the "official official" line of thoughts.

 

[siegecrossbow]

The image is obviously CGI. In real life you don't put loyal wingman this close to the controlling aircraft.

That said, J-20A/S do have the ability to control GJ-11 as confirmed during an interview with PLAAF pilots from Dingxin.

 

[aonestudio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1588829997065961472

View: https://twitter.com/jesusfroman/status/1588829997065961472

 

[totoro]

Biggest news is really construction serials observed at zhuhai. CB0370.
That might signal 3rd batch. Theoretically up to 70 planes within the batch.
Not sure how large were 1st and 2nd batch.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k4AKIxA3Es

 

[sferrin]

Sure does taxi fast.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

 

[sferrin]

Clean for a wheel well. (I don't mean the dirt level. )

 

[Deino]

Biggest news is really construction serials observed at zhuhai. CB0370.
That might signal 3rd batch. Theoretically up to 70 planes within the batch.
Not sure how large were 1st and 2nd batch.

According to "my" calculation at least:

J-20 LRIP batch was Xx0xx numbers with xx = 11 highest no. known

J-20 Batch 01 = CB00xx numbers with xx = 18 highest no. known ... IMO these are all AL-31FN powered ones

J-20A Batch 01 = CB01xx numbers with xx = 46 highest no. known ... IMO these are all WS-10C powered ones

J-20A Batch 02 = CB02xx numbers with xx = 56 highest no. known

J-20A Batch 03 = CB03xx numbers with xx = 70 highest no. known

So indeed, we "may" have up to 200+ J-20/J-20As since April 2022

 

[jeffb]

A few more close ups.

 

[sferrin]

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

So you doubt the capabilities and capacities of China's state enterprises making substantial more J-20s and its variants per year basis? Read the above previous instead of only my own post. If you're asking me that question, then clearly you don't seem to understand what my position is and...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

Cockpit shot.

 

[Forest Green]

"How did you take a picture if you were directly above him?"

"We were inverted."

 

[siegecrossbow]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pi9ZaFW3SyY&feature=emb_title

 

[TomcatViP]

Andreas Rupprecht take on J-20 numbers:

Zhuhai Airshow display reveals info on China’s J-20, J-16 inventory

The presence of J-20s on static display at the show has allowed photographers to obtain better resolution images of the aircraft than previously possible.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Bounce]

Those gaps around the canopy are doing the RCS no Favours, look at the front and rear it's not even close to flush.

 

[Deino]

Andreas Rupprecht take on J-20 numbers:

Zhuhai Airshow display reveals info on China’s J-20, J-16 inventory

The presence of J-20s on static display at the show has allowed photographers to obtain better resolution images of the aircraft than previously possible.

www.defensenews.com

Thanks, but please remind my reply!

I must admit, this all depends on „is the pattern we identified for the construction numbers correct?“ So, I‘m still surprised how much I needed to correct my previous estimate and in fact I would prefer to be careful in case the PLA is playing a „numbers game“ with us.

 

[FighterJock]

Those gaps around the canopy are doing the RCS no Favours, look at the front and rear it's not even close to flush.

View attachment 686899

I noticed that too Bounce, I am surprised that CAC did not even consider putting in serrated edging around the edges of the canopy coated in RAM to aid stealth. Really strange.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Could we possibly be looking at a 'airshow' configuration that can be swapped out for an operational configuration reasonably quickly?

 

[sferrin]

Those gaps around the canopy are doing the RCS no Favours, look at the front and rear it's not even close to flush.

View attachment 686899

I noticed that too Bounce, I am surprised that CAC did not even consider putting in serrated edging around the edges of the canopy coated in RAM to aid stealth. Really strange.

Neither does the F-35.

 

[FighterJock]

Those gaps around the canopy are doing the RCS no Favours, look at the front and rear it's not even close to flush.

View attachment 686899

I noticed that too Bounce, I am surprised that CAC did not even consider putting in serrated edging around the edges of the canopy coated in RAM to aid stealth. Really strange.

Neither does the F-35.View attachment 686906

But the F-35 does not have the gaps so pronounced at the canopy like the J-20, the gaps are really visible.

 

[sferrin]

The only gap that appears noticeably larger than the F-35s is the back end of the canopy. Depending on the materials it might not even matter.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Rear part of the canopy gap could be/or is covered by tape. It is apparent from top down.

 

[FighterJock]

View attachment 686908

Rear part of the canopy gap could be/or is covered by tape. It is apparent from top down.

So the next production batch of J-20s could have the special tape on the canopy, thus rendering the gap not to be a problem in the future and retrofitted to the J-20s that are already in service.

 

[Trident]

The only gap that appears noticeably larger than the F-35s is the back end of the canopy. Depending on the materials it might not even matter.

It may well be a consequence of the location of the canopy hinge (rear on J-20 vs. forward on F-35) more than anything else.

 

[Blitzo]

View attachment 686908

Rear part of the canopy gap could be/or is covered by tape. It is apparent from top down.

So the next production batch of J-20s could have the special tape on the canopy, thus rendering the gap not to be a problem in the future and retrofitted to the J-20s that are already in service.

It's the edge treatment to the rear of the canopy, which from a rearwards perspective makes it look more pronounced.

I don't think there's been any change to canopy geometry between the batches, and we've had hundreds of J-20 images over the last few years.

 

[FighterJock]

View attachment 686908

Rear part of the canopy gap could be/or is covered by tape. It is apparent from top down.

So the next production batch of J-20s could have the special tape on the canopy, thus rendering the gap not to be a problem in the future and retrofitted to the J-20s that are already in service.

It's the edge treatment to the rear of the canopy, which from a rearwards perspective makes it look more pronounced.

I don't think there's been any change to canopy geometry between the batches, and we've had hundreds of J-20 images over the last few years.

Thanks Blitzo.

 

[sferrin]

 

[riggerrob]

Clean for a wheel well. (I don't mean the dirt level. )

Agreed.
Most other manufacturers try to route as many fuel, cooling, hydraulic, etc. lines as possible through wheel wells to ease access for mechanics.

 

[torginus]

Clean for a wheel well. (I don't mean the dirt level. )

Agreed.
Most other manufacturers try to route as many fuel, cooling, hydraulic, etc. lines as possible through wheel wells to ease access for mechanics.

I'd figure this is especially an issue for stealth fighters where you can't just pop off a panel, to get to the guts inside and then screw it back on.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Clean for a wheel well. (I don't mean the dirt level. )

Agreed.
Most other manufacturers try to route as many fuel, cooling, hydraulic, etc. lines as possible through wheel wells to ease access for mechanics.

I think this may have to do with how the wire/hydraulic wires are placed rather than an abundance or absence of them. A lot of them appear to be bundled up on the left and right side of the nose gear bay instead of running along the surface of the bay.



I noticed a similar thing with the weapons bay configuration as well.

 

[TomcatViP]

Well it's only logical to assume that there isn't much system embedded in those airframe. Or someone tell us that the J-20 is an all electrical plane.

 

[BLACK_MAMBA]

Well it's only logical to assume that there isn't much system embedded in those airframe. Or someone tell us that the J-20 is an all electrical plane.

The only logical conclusion we can draw is that Chengdu decided to do things diffrently to Lockheed Martin. Its entirely possible that they have similar sensor suites but with the cabling being routed differently. Judging sensor suites by the weapon and wheel bays is a very superficial way of doing it.

 

[TomcatViP]

Well, if you ask me, the plane we can see at the last airshow look clearly to be light weight.

You can also notice a roll instability in some manoeuvre. Something that would limit airframe max mass (mass = alpha, alpha aggravates roll departure).

 

[Deino]

Well, if you ask me, the plane we can see at the last airshow look clearly to be light weight.

You can also notice a roll instability in some manoeuvre. Something that would limit airframe max mass (mass = alpha, alpha aggravates roll departure).

This one? ... but I'm not sure if it is an instability.

在见到J20之前我没想过一架飞机还能这样飞_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

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www.bilibili.com

By the way ... an impressive image that shows the J-20 is NOT that huge as some still claim.

 

[KUMA]

Well, if you ask me, the plane we can see at the last airshow look clearly to be light weight.

You can also notice a roll instability in some manoeuvre. Something that would limit airframe max mass (mass = alpha, alpha aggravates roll departure).

One of the characteristics of the aerodynamic layout of the J-20 is to deliberately reduce the vertical tail and relax the heading stability. This design allows the J-20 to make more vigorous maneuvers and reduce the radar reflection area, What's more, this arrangement can also reduce the negative influence of V tail on lift.

 

[F119Doctor]

The downside of relaxed lateral stability is the possibility of complete loss of control at high supersonic speeds, as happened with the X-2. Fly by wire active control of the rudder surfaces might offset this issue, but large vertical tails on the F-15 and F-22, along with ventral fins on F-16 and even the J-20 indicate this is still an issue.

 

[SOC]

By the way ... an impressive image that shows the J-20 is NOT that huge as some still claim.

View attachment 687205

That would seem to be a very misleading angle. Look how close a J-11 is to a J-20A in size when they sit next to each other at Dingxin:

 

[KUMA]

The downside of relaxed lateral stability is the possibility of complete loss of control at high supersonic speeds, as happened with the X-2. Fly by wire active control of the rudder surfaces might offset this issue, but large vertical tails on the F-15 and F-22, along with ventral fins on F-16 and even the J-20 indicate this is still an issue.

But there is a problem here. The F-22 is still the traditional vertical tail instead of the full-motion vertical tail.

The full-motion vertical tail can achieve the same effect with a smaller deflection. I think it is difficult to draw the equal sign between the two.

Of course, the ventral fin exists objectively, but I think its area still does not exceed the traditional Vertical stabilizer?

Kuma

 

[Deino]

By the way ... an impressive image that shows the J-20 is NOT that huge as some still claim.

View attachment 687205

That would seem to be a very misleading angle. Look how close a J-11 is to a J-20A in size when they sit next to each other at Dingxin:

Agreed but IMO this is most of all since the Flanker is just massive, whereas the J-20 is - even with still similar dimensions by span and length - much slimmer and flatter.