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Grey Havoc

Grey Havoc

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...when even the dogs in the streets are rioting!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13802940
 
Looks like a relation to this dog ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55ArHjeR1c&NR=1
 
I have yet to read or hear a cogent reason for all the rioting in Greece.
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Their economy is in a mess.
People will get laid off.
People lucky enough to retain their jobs will have their pay cut.
Lots of people are pissed off, and some of them do bad, stupid things, like firebombing the police. Most don't.
 
Arjen said:
Lots of people are pissed off, and some of them do bad, stupid things, like firebombing the police.
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That doesn't make sense. The only good reason for going on a rampage is if the Canucks lose the Stanley Cup.

/sarcasm

In seriousness: the "Arab Street" riots make sense, because they want to overthrow dictatorial governments. The Greek riots *don't* make sense, because they are rioting over things that cannot be changed. The Greek economy is in the toilet, and rioting simply won't help. There doesn't seem to me to be a government that the rioters could replace their current government with that would actually be able to magically make everything all better.

Take this as an omen, Americans: unless the US FedGuv stops spending... you, too, will see dogs rioting in the streets. And perhaps hordes of rampaging bloodthirsty Canadians will descend upon our fair cities like plagues of locusts. And if the worst happens... wave upon wave of drunken British soccer fans will invade our shores.

Shudder.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Take this as an omen, Americans: unless the US FedGuv stops spending... you, too, will see dogs rioting in the streets. And perhaps hordes of rampaging bloodthirsty Canadians will descend upon our fair cities like plagues of locusts. And if the worst happens... wave upon wave of drunken British soccer fans will invade our shores.

Shudder.
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Let's not forget raiding parties from Austrialia looking for women to take back to their forsaken shores. ;D
 
they are rioting over things that cannot be changed
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It's called rage. Given certain conditions, it happens to people. With luck, you won't experience its effects a lot. You may run out of luck.
 
Arjen said:
they are rioting over things that cannot be changed
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It's called rage.
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Makes about as much sense as someone getting enraged over being evicted from a house they could never afford, and did not bother to make payments on.

With luck, you won't experience its effects a lot. You may run out of luck.
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I expect we'll see rather a lot of it. A whole lot of people have grown accustomed to getting freebies from other people, and now view it as their right. Shrug. Well, rioting does serve one good purpose: points out the idiots. Round 'em up, deport 'em.

People lucky enough to retain their jobs will have their pay cut.
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Wouldn't that only apply to government employees?
 
Wouldn't that only apply to government employees?
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I'm afraid not. It's a whole system that's going down the tubes. Banks. Government. They'll take down the rest with them. Unless the European Union bails them out. Right now, the EU is considering whether cutting loose Greece will hurt more than bailing out Greece. The EU will lose either way.
Makes about as much sense as someone getting enraged over being evicted from a house they could never afford, and did not bother to make payments on.
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And early retirement they couldn't afford, and other stuff. It's the result of years of mismanagement. This is not about the government anymore, this is about real people losing their shirts. Even if the EU bails out Greece, hard times have arrived. That gets to people.
I expect we'll see rather a lot of it.
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We'll see.
 
Arjen said:
It's the result of years of mismanagement. This is not about the government anymore, this is about real people losing their shirts.
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As is often said, a nation gets the government it deserves. If a people come to want bread and circuses, they'll get a government that'll give to 'em. Many nations have been living on credit and partying too hard for too long. Eventually the credit card gets rejected and the hangover kicks in.
 
Orionblamblam said:
I have yet to read or hear a cogent reason for all the rioting in Greece.
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Fiscal austerity. Greece has a very large public sector in relation to its underdeveloped private sector. It all comes down to public employees being made redundant and social benefits being cut. Of course, it doesn't help that tax evasion seems to be the national pastime of Greece, so there's a massive underground economy, and despite high official levels of taxation, very little revenue is actually collected.
 
Orionblamblam said:
In seriousness: the "Arab Street" riots make sense, because they want to overthrow dictatorial governments. The Greek riots *don't* make sense, because they are rioting over things that cannot be changed. The Greek economy is in the toilet, and rioting simply won't help. There doesn't seem to me to be a government that the rioters could replace their current government with that would actually be able to magically make everything all better.
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Orionblamblam, you are so very wrong. There are many complex social, sectarian, ethnic, tribal, historical and regional issues in the Arab world and the concerns vary from country to country. In contrast, the riots in Greece are entirely related to the austerity measures. The situation in Greece is very simple. The protestors don't want fiscal austerity and most likely don't care about the effects of a debt default. Actually, since Greece is part of the Eurozone, the local effects of a Greek debt default would be minimal, although there would be the risk of a cascade effect with debt defaults in other weak Eurozone economies and panic in global bond markets. In the end, it looks like the Greek protestors will get their way and the German government will effectively "bail out" Greece yet again.
 
TinWing said:
There are many complex social, sectarian, ethnic, tribal, historical and regional issues in the Arab world and the concerns vary from country to country.
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True... but in all the Arab protests I've seen the cause of anger is a government that treats its people like crap.

The protestors don't want fiscal austerity and most likely don't care about the effects of a debt default.
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This is the part that makes no *logical* sense. What they are doing is akin to passengers on the Titanic rioting because they don't want the ship to sink... an hour *after* it hit the iceberg. The damage is done and physics has taken over; pitching a fit won't help any.

As to tax evasion: doesn't matter. A *good* government does not base its expenditures on the revenues they *want* to have, but the revenues they've actually got. I know, I know... this pretty much means there's not a *good* government on the planet. Certainly excludes the US FedGuv.

the German government will effectively "bail out" Greece yet again.
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That's always been the German governments problem... too softhearted when it comes to non-Germans. They need to put some iron in their spine. But do they have the sheer strength of will?
 
Orionblamblam said:
But do they have the sheer strength of will?
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Perhaps they need to watch The Triumph of Will by fellow country filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl... German softness for foreign causes comes from lingering 70-year old guilt, which is hard to shake when occupying forces are a daily reminder, no matter how benign.
 
Sigh.
A: If you have to explain the joke, it's not funny anymore.
B: It helps if you get the joke right the first time...

Hermes: We can't compete with Mom! Her company is big and evil! Ours is small and neutral!
That Guy: Switzerland is small and neutral! We're more like Germany, ambitious and misunderstood!
Amy: Look, everyone wants to be like Germany, but do we really have the pure strength of will?
 
IIRC, BBC news reported recently that tax authorities in Athens have resorted to using Google Earth to identify the many homes with un-declared swimming pools...


a) There's a stiff property tax on the pools.


b) Pools evaporate a LOT of valuable water in Summer.


c) Apparently 4 of every 5 pools were un-declared.


We used to joke that the Italians were masters of tax evasion. Greeks, it seems, have taken it to an art-form...
 
TinWing said:
Orionblamblam, that is a very simplistic and inaccurate view of current event...
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OK... so, in the Arab nations that have seen widespread protests... which ones *don't* have dictatorial regimes that have brutalized the populace???

you really can't generalize when it comes to the Arab world.
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So... is it accurate to generalize them as "the Arab world?"
 

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