• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

"World's best View of AREA 51"

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,044
Reaction score
867
QI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bjzqaDdolI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTCWfob05Rw&feature=channel
 

quellish

I am not actually here.
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
158
flateric said:

Ah, memories. I remember being one of the first able to do this in 95/96:
http://web.archive.org/web/19971013220815/www.frogi.org/danz.html
 

royabulgaf

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
482
Reaction score
52
Just out of curiosity, why is it that whenever there is something of the highest level of secrecy to be shown on this site, it comes from Gregory in Moscow.

Gregory, I just retired from the federal government. Perhaps I should ask you when my pension will be adjudicated? ;D


Thanks Gregory for a great post, and

Hugs from the Rez

Kim M
 

Stingray

Resident retro rainbow rotorhead nerdy girl, uwu
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
415
Reaction score
90
Website
sites.google.com
royabulgaf said:
Just out of curiosity, why is it that whenever there is something of the highest level of secrecy to be shown on this site, it comes from Gregory in Moscow.

:D


Clioman said:
Nice background music. Anybody know the name/composer?


I only know that its from the soundtrack for a movie called "Mulholland Drive".
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
30
I think that was done with Google Earth, you can use it to make video tours now.
 

tacitblue

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
SOC said:
I think that was done with Google Earth, you can use it to make video tours now.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen Area51 updates for MS Flight!!

BTW, what do you suppose is in all those hangars out there? It can't all be Ruskie Mig-29s and SU-27s.

My theory is the F-117 was taken public and rebased outside of Groom to make room for something new that was being fielded. With the demise of the F-117, the DoD couldn't let such a remarkable plane be retired and *not* have a replacement; hence 'they' claim that the F-22 is not the replacement for the F-117. This scenario is very similar to when the F-117 was still secret and the USAF had the cover story that A-7s were fitted with a pod that made them invisible. Its amazing how something like the DoD can be soooo dumb at times to use the same cover story multiple times.

The F-22 is simply not capable of the F-117 mission as it has no FLIR. Hence there is a true replacement for the F-117 out there. The Steven Douglas video of the 2 black triangles is most likely the aircraft in question. It is very easy to see that the angles on the Douglas video are not those of F-117s.

There is an interview with Tom Clancy floating around where he states that his sources have identified 2 manned 'black' programs out of Groom; one being a supersonic fighter sized aircraft and another being some other manned stealthy platform that I can't remember the details he spoke of.
 

quellish

I am not actually here.
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
158
tacitblue said:
I'm surprised that I haven't seen Area51 updates for MS Flight!!

BTW, what do you suppose is in all those hangars out there? It can't all be Ruskie Mig-29s and SU-27s.

There used to be Groom Lake maps for MS Flight Simulator around.
Air Force Flight Test Center Detachment 3 at Groom Lake continues to fly developmental aircraft that demonstrate new technologies or capabilities. Additionally, many production aircraft are brought to the range as part of upgrade programs or to use other range facilities such as the DYCOMS array. Groom Lake is primarily a flight test location, in its current state it could not support even a small number of operational aircraft.


tacitblue said:
The F-22 is simply not capable of the F-117 mission as it has no FLIR. Hence there is a true replacement for the F-117 out there. The Steven Douglas video of the 2 black triangles is most likely the aircraft in question. It is very easy to see that the angles on the Douglas video are not those of F-117s.

Why would it need a FLIR? There were two major reasons the F-117 was fitted with the FLIR/DLIR system. First, it was passive. Second, their primary weapon was optically guided.
Today there are much better radars with LPI capabilities, and most air to ground munitions are satellite guided. There is no need for a FLIR.
The F-117's mission was always to strike small numbers of heavily defended targets. It's actually more of a nice to have than an essential capability, and both the B-2 and F-22 can perform the mission. There is no evidence to support the idea that the F-117 was directly replaced by another program.
 

OM

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
12
Website
www.io.com
tacitblue said:
I'm surprised that I haven't seen Area51 updates for MS Flight!!

...What gets me is that someone hasn't photochopped that Groom Lake photo so that every single X-Plane isn't parked in - no pun intended - plain view, along with every Sci-Fi fighter or shuttlecraft. Seeing a squadron of Vipers parked next to a squadron of Cylons would have most people ROFLing for hours, and there's no telling how many Easter Eggs you could add to this one.

As I told Andy Chaikin the other day, Google Moon needs to show not only Moonbase Alpha, but the Tycho Monolith dig as well... :p
 

bob225

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
88
Reaction score
39
Sure many of you aware but http://www.dreamlandresort.com/ has a set of new satellite image taken in Aug 11 of groom lake, lots of new hangers and buildings.


One thing i found really interesting was the large hanger completed 07, it's huge 100mtrs by 60, the doors alone are 55m wide! which is enough to fit a B2 into nicely i think, any of those dropped off the radar recently? or something new & big hiding in there?


For comparison, the massive main hanger at Imperial war museum Duxford is 88 x 77m ish, and it's huge in there!
 

Sundog

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,820
Reaction score
266
bob225 said:
One thing i found really interesting was the large hanger completed 07, it's huge 100mtrs by 60, the doors alone are 55m wide! which is enough to fit a B2 into nicely i think, any of those dropped off the radar recently? or something new & big hiding in there?

According to AvWeek, it's for the new stealthy UAV prototype (SensorCraft?) from N-G.
 

quellish

I am not actually here.
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
158
Sundog said:
bob225 said:
One thing i found really interesting was the large hanger completed 07, it's huge 100mtrs by 60, the doors alone are 55m wide! which is enough to fit a B2 into nicely i think, any of those dropped off the radar recently? or something new & big hiding in there?

According to AvWeek, it's for the new stealthy UAV prototype (SensorCraft?) from N-G.

Hangar 151 at Edwards (34.908171°, -117.911302°) is nearly identical, but twice the depth (120m instead of 60). There are bigger hangars out there, and hangars of the same size and design.
So far there has not be anything to support the idea that this hangar houses a single program. To the contrary, looking at activity at the new large hangar since 2007 shows signs that multiple programs are housed there. From the AC tow bars being used, to vehicle tracks, to where and what is parked there, it does look like it's been used for multiple programs as well as office space.

The UAV Aerial Operations Facility at Yucca Flat is probably a lot more interesting, and may be supporting a single LM program.
 

Mr London 24/7

ACCESS: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
408
Reaction score
89
bob225 said:
....One thing i found really interesting was the large hanger completed 07....

For me the Hangar appears to have been built a little too far from the remainder of the Base than would seem strictly neccessary (a segregation almost) and its orientation seems rather particular. It does however mean that it's significantly nearer the Engine Test Cells (and the munitions storage bunkers). The road to which (including from and right past that very hangar) also appears to have been improved or regraded in these same years...

There have also been a few reports of what could be unusually loud Engine ground tests also in recent years.
 

bob225

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
88
Reaction score
39
Out of curiosity anyone know why they keep building new hangers? Are the SR-71 / U2 hangers to old / unfit for purpose, full, or just not big enough?


Also, thinking about project like "blackstar" wasn't that supposed to be huge? if so were there hangers at groom big enough to house it during the right time-frame or is does that blow the whole thing out of the water in one go?
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
454
Whether "Blackstar", "Brilliant Buzzard", "Aurora", "Sentinel", "FB-22", "Stealth Blimp" or whatever else is/was supposed to be there, it most certainly requires a lot of space. I don't believe that all of these actually existed or operated from "Area 51", but I should think that out of the whole bunch of rumored projects, there surely must have been one or two that did fly experimentally, and that base sure was the place for them. Now as to whatever could STILL be flying from there, who could tell? I for one refuse the notion that the U.S. never cared to give the SR-71 any valuable successor.
 

bob225

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
88
Reaction score
39
Around the time of the f117 / B2 unveiling's i was told by a person who worked for the american military that 3 new aircraft were going to be brought out into the public's view, could of been rubbish but i still wonder if there was a third program due to be announced that remained black for whatever reason, i totally agree that getting rid of sr-71 without a replacement seems to make no sense, but this does involve politics so who knows!!!
 

quellish

I am not actually here.
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
158
bob225 said:
Out of curiosity anyone know why they keep building new hangers? Are the SR-71 / U2 hangers to old / unfit for purpose, full, or just not big enough?


Also, thinking about project like "blackstar" wasn't that supposed to be huge? if so were there hangers at groom big enough to house it during the right time-frame or is does that blow the whole thing out of the water in one go?


A number of reasons. Some of hangars have office space. Some hangars have dedicated users that have their own security/etc. needs (i.e. Lockheed Martin may have X hangars that have to be close together, they end up getting X+1 hangars because of the layout of the place). In general there has been an effort at the facility in the last few years to invest in new infrastructure. They've needed some of these changes for a while - finally they're getting enough power lines coming in, for example. They've also gotten some things that maybe aren't as essential, like a running track. The construction does give people with the required clearances work to do, which has been in short supply.


There is also a lot of activity in general at the facility, and there have been new organizations using it and the surrounding secure areas.

If "blackstar" was as described, there was not enough fuel storage at Groom to support it. Same for the idea of a cryogenically fueled Aurora. Big, fast things require a lot of special gas, and there simply was not enough coming into or going out of Groom, or stored there, to support something like that.


Unless that big hangar is just a cover for a massive liquid hydrogen tank. Hmmm....
 

Mat Parry

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
417
Reaction score
7
quellish said:
Unless that big hangar is just a cover for a massive liquid hydrogen tank. Hmmm....

I love it! ;) I bet this idea will catch on!

My own addition to the birth of this new and highly speculative legend, the earthwork berm isn't actually for hiding test articles from prying eyes, it's a blast deflector to protect aircraft on the taxiways / runways from a "Hindenburg" event.

I am of course joking, and I suspect Quellish is too.
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,235
Reaction score
454
seruriermarshal said:
Stargazer2006 said:

RQ-170 ?

Er... no. Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the so-called "F-121" interceptor which some claim to have seen taking off at night near Tonopah, a design similar to an actual project which once appeared in some Hughes ads.
 

Mat Parry

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
417
Reaction score
7
Stargazer2006 said:
seruriermarshal said:
Stargazer2006 said:

RQ-170 ?

Er... no. Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the so-called "F-121" interceptor which some claim to have seen taking off at night near Tonopah, a design similar to an actual project which once appeared in some Hughes ads.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11250.msg115904.html#msg115904

aerodog said:
Groom Lake is where the US tests/flies its blackest programs - Edwards or some other like base would do just fine as a test site if not for one thing: requirement for a remote location. Groom Lake might as well have a motto that says, "Unknown unknowns flown here". Since SR-71 standdown (lets say nearly 20 years) you would have to be stupid to think the US has not flown some new unusual black aircraft from Groom. Office space, infrastructure, hanger upgrades, tankage, etc., are red herrings (nobody comes to this site to find out about the Groom Lake Track Meet (lol). In 20 years, some remarkable black project flight vehicle (even just one, large or small) has lifted off from those runways - that is a certainty. If not, why not just pack it all up and send it to Edwards?

I dont agree that logistical tails such as cryogenic fuels and tankage are a red herring, they are more like a smoking gun (or rather the abscence of one)

however.....
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,352.msg4440.html#msg4440
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,352.msg33751.html#msg33751
 

LowObservable

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,202
Reaction score
130
I like the idea of Hangar 18 as a cover for big dead-giveaway cryo tanks...

Back to the present, this is the biggest wave of building since the late 1980s. That one reflected the Reagan administration's black-project launches (that produced hardware in the second half of the decade). This one reflects the Bush activity.
 

quellish

I am not actually here.
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,149
Reaction score
158
LowObservable said:
I like the idea of Hangar 18 as a cover for big dead-giveaway cryo tanks...

Back to the present, this is the biggest wave of building since the late 1980s. That one reflected the Reagan administration's black-project launches (that produced hardware in the second half of the decade). This one reflects the Bush activity.

And at least partially, the whole Obama reinvestment in America thing. Some of the activity started under Bush was expanded and extended under Obama. Somewhere I have information on several of those contracts.

aerodog said:
Groom Lake is where the US tests/flies its blackest programs - Edwards or some other like base would do just fine as a test site if not for one thing: requirement for a remote location. Groom Lake might as well have a motto that says, "Unknown unknowns flown here". Since SR-71 standdown (lets say nearly 20 years) you would have to be stupid to think the US has not flown some new unusual black aircraft from Groom. Office space, infrastructure, hanger upgrades, tankage, etc., are red herrings (nobody comes to this site to find out about the Groom Lake Track Meet (lol). In 20 years, some remarkable black project flight vehicle (even just one, large or small) has lifted off from those runways - that is a certainty. If not, why not just pack it all up and send it to Edwards?

A number of unique projects have been tested there. But there is no information that supports the idea of a large, cryogenically fueled aircraft operating from there. While the aircraft of the facility are not easy to see, the infrastructure that supports them is difficult to hide. If you have aircraft you need fuel, if you have fuel it needs to be brought in somehow and stored, etc. All of these things are pretty visible if you know where to look, and a large cryogenic tank farm is very difficult to hide.

The Red Hats aircraft have actually been flying more and more during daylight in recent years. It's not unusual to see Su-27s out there during the day - this highlights the growing importance of the Red Hats/EW mission.

The running track isn't used for competition, but the bowling league is very serious.


And who says these programs aren't at Edwards? Edwards is after all the parent organization for the facility, and Edwards North Base is still very active, and still very black. Red Hats still operate out of there, and there are still unidentified things with strange lights flying in and out of Edwards at night like the mid 90s.
 

Similar threads

Top