Various aviation projects from South Africa

Cheers folks.

@Graugrun - Thanks for that! The navalised Rooivalk project has been added

@kaiserbill - I was trying to limit my list to projects with very strong Atlas connections. Granted that got pretty wobbly once you get to the Ovid/NGT/ACE ...
 
Basically, it was a design exercise to figure out design capabilities and map out the way forward to a heavy attack helicopter, which resulted in the Rooivalk.
Never any intention to equip it with operational weapon systems.
Trevor Ralston, the test pilot interviewed, looks to be in excellent shape for his age.
He was also the Chief test pilot on the follow on Rooivalk program.
 
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The SAAF also used two highly modified Puma's to test systems for the Rooivalk and also to test the viability of turning Pumas into gunships. Here is a shot of one of them. It had an underbody 20mm canon plus side mounted ordinance bearing sponsons.
 

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Below is a post on social media regarding work done on replacing the bombing computer on the SAAF Buccaneers.

"The old bombing computer had crude and difficult to operate analogue switches, selection bomb bay, salvo, and bomb intervals.

The new design would be electronically selected and circuitry. We used 7 segment LED displays to show what was configured.
In 1984 we still did not have all the wonderful micro electronics that we have today. But a good design.
The PC board was a 7 layer, very difficult and tricky. Back then we did not have the fantastic circuit board design software of today. ATLAS Aircraft Corporation made the board for us. To the best of my knowledge, only one prototype was built.But it never came to fruition since the military wind down by the government started already. Air Logistics Command started cutting back on projects related to aircraft that were listed for retirement viz Canberra and Buccaneer.

I left the SAAF in 1989 to join an engineering company that would play a significant role in the nuclear programme, until FW cancelled the programme in 1993."
 
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SAAF website states South Africa bought 18 R-73 missiles and decided to test it by integrating them on to the Mirage F1 to evaluate.
They were impressed by the missile and testing was a success, but it was decided to continue with the V3C and V3S line of missiles.
 
Surbaissemaxxing said:
Not sure if this belongs here, but I found an image of the F1CZ carrying R-73's (which I assume was for tests). This was before the Super Mirage F1 with its SMR95 engine began

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This photo is from 1993. The SMR-95 engine project was running at pace for a few years by then with the first flight a year later in 1994.

As Kaiserbill mentioned, several R-73s were acquired but was not adopted with V3S remaining the SAAFs IR weapon of choice. Kentron (later Denel Dynamics) took the oppertunity to glean quite a bit of insight from their TVC working etc and applied it to later products.
 
I'm not sure if this is the right place for this - however I assume this would most likely suite the SA military aviation industry - This is from the latest CSIR projects update:

With regard to materials and manufacturing, the CSIR and Filament Factory developed an advanced nano-reinforced polymer composite that offers electromagnetic interference shielding and enhanced electrical conductivity. These properties make it ideal for stealth technology and radar-absorbent materials.

https://defenceweb.co.za/industry/i...e-shrinking-government-grant-csir-doing-well/
 
Just another question that hopefully is fitting here, i recall reading that SAAF was planning to buy/licence 100 Mirage F1s, but as known only 16 CZ and 32 AZ were delivered. Is there info about the intended breakdown between AZ and CZ for the planned 100 airframes, how many of each? Presumably some two-seaters (BZ?) might have been included too?

Also, during the apartheid era presumably they intended to modernize the Mirage F1s after finishing with the Cheetahs, any info of the avionics configuration of such an upgrade, presumably much the same (mostly israeli?) avionics and weapons as Cheetah C for the Mirage F1CZ, including the Elta EL/M-2032 radar, R-Darters etc., and similar but without the radar (EL/M-2001 instead) for the F1AZ?
 
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lancer21 said:
Also, during the apartheid era presumably they intended to modernize the Mirage F1s after finishing with the Cheetahs, any info of the avionics configuration of such an upgrade, presumably much the same (mostly israeli?) avionics and weapons as Cheetah C for the Mirage F1CZ, including the Elta EL/M-2032 radar, R-Darters etc., and similar but without the radar (EL/M-2001 instead) for the F1AZ?
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I have not seen or heard much about the intended local production break down.

Scroll a few pages back on this thread for your second question. Potential F1 upgrades have been discussed quite a bit. There seems to have been multiple investigations, but the common theme is they are to be upgraded to a common standard. Like the Cheetah D, D2 and B. Same same, but different. Initially it was Cheetah avionics and the later one I came across, Project Kummel, seems like a precursor and a bit more encompassing than Nekwar with local avionics and a new nose which would have had a fixed refueling probe and no laser ranger underneath. Seems to have been AZ specific.
 
BLACK_MAMBA said:
I have not seen or heard much about the intended local production break down.

Scroll a few pages back on this thread for your second question. Potential F1 upgrades have been discussed quite a bit. There seems to have been multiple investigations, but the common theme is they are to be upgraded to a common standard. Like the Cheetah D, D2 and B. Same same, but different. Initially it was Cheetah avionics and the later one I came across, Project Kummel, seems like a precursor and a bit more encompassing than Nekwar with local avionics and a new nose which would have had a fixed refueling probe and no laser ranger underneath. Seems to have been AZ specific.
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Thanks for that, i don't know how i missed the discussion on this very subject couple of pages back. About the radome shape, the F1 M53 prototype did have a bulged radome, so it might have worked on the proposed SA upgrade, perhaps the Elta 2032 radar might have had higher azimuth/elevation angles and/or larger antenna compared to the Cyrano to require the bulged radome.
 
lancer21 said:
Thanks for that, i don't know how i missed the discussion on this very subject couple of pages back. About the radome shape, the F1 M53 prototype did have a bulged radome, so it might have worked on the proposed SA upgrade, perhaps the Elta 2032 radar might have had higher azimuth/elevation angles and/or larger antenna compared to the Cyrano to require the bulged radome.
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There are quite a few detail differences between the vanilla Mirage F1 and the F1-M53. The entire forward fuselage structure would need reworking to have a M2000 like bulged radome similar to F1-M53. Given the EL 2032 can sit further back inside the radome simply by being more compact than the Cyrano I suspect the nose profile would have remained the same. Even the basic F1AZ nose profile remainded the same as that of the F1C, just with the probe position changed and laser added etc. A new radome with larger/totally composite conical area would likely have sufficed to give adequate view angle to the new radar.
 
Question about the propulsion / engine that would have been used in the Carver. I have seen many say that it may have used a (possibly illeagal) copy of the SMR 95, or a copy of the RR Spey but with reheat, then ofc the good ole Atar 9K50
 
Sea Harrier FRS.1 said:
Question about the propulsion / engine that would have been used in the Carver. I have seen many say that it may have used a (possibly illeagal) copy of the SMR 95, or a copy of the RR Spey but with reheat, then ofc the good ole Atar 9K50
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There is a stand alone thread for Carver where this is discussed.

In short:

The plan was to procure the SMR-95 in quantity for the Mirage F1 and Cheetah fleet. Carver would have benefitted from that. There was no intention of an illegal copy, but local engine maintenace and support was planned with assistance and input from Klimov. How likely this was of happening is debateble given subsequent programmes with other nations needed to have their engines sent to Russia for maintenace and overhaul so the same was the most probable outcome for South Africa had it converted to the SMR-95.
Atar Plus - Atar 09k50 with improved throttle response and slight thrust improvement as used in the Cheetah C would have been the likely engine had the single engine design moved forward though it is possible that the SMR-95 would have succeed the Atar there too or have been availble early enough for the design baseline to change to the new engine.
The Spey seems to have been seriously considered and samples obtained but it along with the Snecma M88 seems to fall somewhere between the Atar option and the SMR becoming available.
 

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