V-2 with Chemical Warheads plans ?

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Michel Van

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in last years of WW2
the V-2 Missile programme came in hand of SS
Heinrich Himmler demanded use V-2 & V-1 with Chemical weapons
Wat Hitler violent refused

now, were there something like a Chemical Warheads for V-2 and V-1 ?
 
There was also a design of a chemical A 4, with the warhead placed between the shortened tanks section and the engine section and designed to break away easily in case of a crash.
Or maybe not just a design? A strange, much shorter than usual oxygen tank of the A 4 rocket was found some years ago at the former Heidekraut test range in Poland. ???

Regards

Grzesio
 
Thx for Info

looks that "Chemical" V-2 have short range as conventional arm V-2
 
Maybe this is semi-related to the thread, but the website below elaborates the ECM endeavors against radio guided V-2s and the creation of the AN/ARQ-11 jammer, a very useful piece of electronics against ca. 25% of all V-2s.

 
From "The nuclear axis" by Philip Henshall
A little late, but that "nuclear" V-2 is bullcrap. The "Korsett" was a system to hold onto the A-4 and allow it to be locked to a test stand for a short-duration test fire. Those truncated propellant tanks would not have allowed for much range at all, especially with all that other hardware bolted on. Henshall saw some diagrams and misinterpretted them into something much more interesting (and presumably lucrative) than they really were.
 
A simple gun-style nuke capable of being put in a V-2?

That’s pretty much a Scud.
 
Maybe this is semi-related to the thread, but the website below elaborates the ECM endeavors against radio guided V-2s and the creation of the AN/ARQ-11 jammer, a very useful piece of electronics against ca. 25% of all V-2s.


There were no radios on V-2s. The British were given parts from a V-2 that crashed and that had a radio. If jamming were available, then no British fighters would have been dispatched to locate V-2 launch sites, which were usually located in heavily wooded areas.
 
A little late, but that "nuclear" V-2 is bullcrap. The "Korsett" was a system to hold onto the A-4 and allow it to be locked to a test stand for a short-duration test fire. Those truncated propellant tanks would not have allowed for much range at all, especially with all that other hardware bolted on. Henshall saw some diagrams and misinterpretted them into something much more interesting (and presumably lucrative) than they really were.

The so-called "corset V-2" is well documented in photos. The purpose of the outer metal section is still unknown. By the time the corset V-2 appeared, there was no longer a need for test firing.
 
I would like to add that the problem of V-2s exploding after launch was solved with the addition of glass wool insulation inside the rocket. This prevented the rapid rise in skin temperature from causing the fuel tanks to explode.
 
Corset for stiffening the rocket for heavier payloads? I might put a bunch of lead in the nose and see how far it would go.
 
Was the radio-equipped V2 for tracking ?? I'd expect the 'usual' Radar would struggle...

IIRC, the Germans did not know exactly where later V2s went, as UK's XX system (Which 'Turned' Spies) was able to fool them by reporting the V2s were landing long / short of Central London...
--
With regard to any V2 CBW payload, the 'Back Channels' promise of RAF deliveries of Mustard or worse to a dozen German cities the following day must have instilled caution in all but the most rabid fanatics...
 
Was the radio-equipped V2 for tracking ?? I'd expect the 'usual' Radar would struggle...

IIRC, the Germans did not know exactly where later V2s went, as UK's XX system (Which 'Turned' Spies) was able to fool them by reporting the V2s were landing long / short of Central London...
--
With regard to any V2 CBW payload, the 'Back Channels' promise of RAF deliveries of Mustard or worse to a dozen German cities the following day must have instilled caution in all but the most rabid fanatics...
Not to mention Hitler's own rabid hatred of chemical weapons...
 
Was the radio-equipped V2 for tracking ?? I'd expect the 'usual' Radar would struggle...

IIRC, the Germans did not know exactly where later V2s went, as UK's XX system (Which 'Turned' Spies) was able to fool them by reporting the V2s were landing long / short of Central London...
--
With regard to any V2 CBW payload, the 'Back Channels' promise of RAF deliveries of Mustard or worse to a dozen German cities the following day must have instilled caution in all but the most rabid fanatics...

Not this again. There are maps showing exactly where the V-2s struck. Aside from a V-2 test where the rocket crashed, and the parts were examined by the British, and a radio was found, they assumed all V-2s carried radios. They did not.

A secret shipment of bombs filled with Mustard gas arrived at Bari Harbor in Italy in December 1943. The Germans bombed the harbor, detonating the bombs. A doctor on site noticed that some of the sailors were afflicted with something other than what would be expected after the detonation of normal bombs. He treated them for exposure to Mustard gas, but no one admitted at the time that such bombs were there.

 
Not to mention Hitler's own rabid hatred of chemical weapons...

Toward the end of the war, a British bomb disposal team came upon artillery shells marked with an unusual colored band. They were filled with nerve gas.
 
Toward the end of the war, a British bomb disposal team came upon artillery shells marked with an unusual colored band. They were filled with nerve gas.
And the Allies shipped Mustard Gas and worse to the front lines, to be used in retaliation.

Germans never used gas on troops, so the Allies never did either.
 
Toward the end of the war, a British bomb disposal team came upon artillery shells marked with an unusual colored band. They were filled with nerve gas.
It's nothing strange - Germans did mass produce chemical weapons during the war, including Tabun and Sarin agents. E.g. total number of complete chemical rockets for the 15 cm Nebelwerfer made from 1941 to March 1945 was 223 800.
 
What is your source for this information? The Germans produced Sarin, Soman and Tabun.
 
What is your source for this information? The Germans produced Sarin, Soman and Tabun.
Yes, and both sides saw Chemical weapons as a "we won't use them first, but we sure will reply in kind" weapon.

Hitler had been gassed in WW1, so he 1) insisted that all German soldiers would have gas masks as standard kit, and 2) was firmly against using chemical weapons first.
 
...yet the Reich did use chemical weapons, just not in a "military" context. They used poison gases in their death camps.
Not on Allied soldiers, or even on Soviet soldiers.

(And not on what the Reich considered "humans" either.)
 
I can't help but wonder as a "what if" (inspired by Gregory Benford's "The Berlin Project"), what if the Germans had U235 and, seeing a fission bomb as too difficult, decided to use warheads loaded with powdered U235? That could make cleanup a whole lot more difficult.
 
Uranium is only mildly radioactive so it wouldn't be a good choice for a radiological-bomb, what you'd want instead is Polonium and/or Radium.
The nasty catch is that Uranium can and will form into critical masses as people try to clean up the dust. Demon Core 2!
 
I can't help but wonder as a "what if" (inspired by Gregory Benford's "The Berlin Project"), what if the Germans had U235 and, seeing a fission bomb as too difficult, decided to use warheads loaded with powdered U235? That could make cleanup a whole lot more difficult.
Uranium is not very radioactive, so the radiation damage would be minimal (and most likely not even considered harmful in 1940s - long-therm radiation hazards weren't well-known then). But uranium is highly toxic, so there would be a lot of peoples poisoned. And since Allies would immediately recognize that some poisonous material was delivered, they would retaliate in kind, dropping thousands of ton of mustard gas on Germany (USSR alone have about 80.000 tons of mustard gas agents).
 
I doubt that a so-called radiological bomb would have much effect.

I vaguely remember an article--in Scientifc American, I think--that calculated the possible effects of using a device built from really radioactive material like medical radioisotopes. The article concluded that there would be little if any short-term effect if the device were detonated in the open air. Concentrations would be too low. If detonated inside a large building that wasn't too well venitlated, there would be some casualties and the building would have to be sealed off essentially forever. But the bulk of the occupants would evacuate without obvious ill effects.

The one military radiation expert that I happen to know also points out that those preparing the dirty bomb would probably suffer far more casualties than the target. Proximity--handling, storing, and moving the concentrated stuff--is what kills.

So a high explosive charge of equivalent wieght would do much more damage for the effort expended with far less risk to the bombers.
 
Maybe this is semi-related to the thread, but the website below elaborates the ECM endeavors against radio guided V-2s and the creation of the AN/ARQ-11 jammer, a very useful piece of electronics against ca. 25% of all V-2s.

I love the massive coils and those old-style aluminum fin capacitors in it.
 
Uranium is only mildly radioactive so it wouldn't be a good choice for a radiological-bomb, what you'd want instead is Polonium and/or Radium.
Uranium is an alpha emitter. You have to eat or breathe it in in order for it to be harmful and even then it'll take years to kill you off.
 
An alternative warhead that would be more effective would have been an incendiary one mixed with some high explosive. You design the warhead to detonate just before impact-- given the V-2's size, maybe a larger proximity fuse using available radar equipment-- so the warhead ignites and scatters incendiary material over a large area. Maybe mix in a smaller bursting container of mustard gas to confuse the responders to the fires.
 
And before then it's a heavy metal, so it's as generally toxic as lead or mercury.

Somewhat worse because uranium is a bone-seeker.
It would still take years to kill you off. That's hardly a viable weapon in a war where you want casualties now.
 
An alternative warhead that would be more effective would have been an incendiary one mixed with some high explosive. You design the warhead to detonate just before impact-- given the V-2's size, maybe a larger proximity fuse using available radar equipment-- so the warhead ignites and scatters incendiary material over a large area. Maybe mix in a smaller bursting container of mustard gas to confuse the responders to the fires.
Well, as I mentioned before - the truly devastating warhead for V-2 may be the one, filled with N-stoff, chlorine trifluoride (assuming, of course, that Germans figured out some way to handle this horrible stuff without blowing the missile up several hundred times during preparation). When such warhead hit... well, it would basically create a localized firestorm. With the chlorine trifluoride, essentially everything - bricks, cement, iron, sand, water - would combust. Also, its extremely toxic - but since the toxic fumes could be considered a byproduct of incendiary reaction, Germans may claim that it is not de jure a chemical weapon.

P.S. I copyrighted the idea as plot device) ;)
 
Chlorine trifluoride may be disappointing specifically *because* its so reactive. Sure, it'll combust with the dirt and the plaster and the bricks of whatever building it hit... but the people in that building are likely dead already because a bloody great rocket just crashed into them and brought the building down on them. The added bonus combustion being so reactive, would likely be very *concentrated.* So the people right there at ground zero wouldn't just be killed, they'd be vaporized... but you don't need that, you'd happy with "just barely dead" and quite possibly "not even dead, but in need of expensive medical treatment."

What you want to do is spread the "just barely dead" as far as possible.
 
Yes, and both sides saw Chemical weapons as a "we won't use them first, but we sure will reply in kind" weapon.

Hitler had been gassed in WW1, so he 1) insisted that all German soldiers would have gas masks as standard kit, and 2) was firmly against using chemical weapons first.

Was also a strategic consideration, the German logistics were heavily reliant on horse drawn carts and artillery with only 14 of 40 divisions during the invasion of Poland being mechanised, even in supposedly mechanised divisions their wagon trains still relied heavily on horses and they didn't have enough horse gas masks stockpiled before the war to issue out to more than a small proportion of their logistics chain nor the capacity to manufacture them in bulk during the war (by 1942 leather boots were phased out in favour of lace up shoes and by 1944 leather coats were discontinued).
 
Yea, I see spraying incendiary material over a greater area along with some blast-fragmentation as being a better bet. You smash up some of the buildings in the area to one degree or another to get kindling then set that on fire. Mix in a bit of mustard gas to force the responders to suit up and gasmask to make putting the fires out harder.

The gas attack part, if very limited might even be misinterpreted as something else initially.
 
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