USS Bonhomme Richard

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TomS said:
OTOH, remember the complete fiasco that was the JAG investigation of the Iowa explosion.
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Well they brought in the BATF..an organization with extensive expertise in arsons.
I mean..in investigating arsons.
 
marauder2048 said:
SSgtC said:
marauder2048 said:
SSgtC said:
marauder2048 said:
Punishable by death under the UCMJ.
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Highly doubtful they'd get the death penalty. But 25-life is very possible
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Given how overzealous JAG is for every other prosecution it's probably sadly the case that they'll go easy.
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I mean, no one died, very few were even injured. The death penalty is just a little excessive
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View attachment 640055
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Just FYI, I'm stealing this.

And I don't mean to belittle what this person did. Just that I don't think it rises to the level of the death penalty. 25+ years? For sure.
 
SSgtC said:
I mean, no one died, very few were even injured. The death penalty is just a little excessive
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I've never seen the purpose in lesser sentences for attempted murder compared to murder. Lack of skill doesn't negate intent.

And in this case, not only was the (alleged) arsonist attempting to murder people on the ship, he was also attempting to murder untold thousands who would have been saved by the Bon Homme Richard in some future conflict. So not only are murder charges applicable, so are espionage and treason.
 
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
 
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
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Treason in the US has such a narrow definition that you might as well forget it. It's like people screaming that organized crime can be attacked with the RICO act. Technically this is true. It's just incredibly rare for those actual circumstances to actually come up.

Simply torching a warship in no way qualifies for the legal definition of treason.
 
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
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And people exposed to the smoke could have major health impacts down the line.
 
IMHO, sabotage of a defence asset just has to be treason in my book.
 
starviking said:
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
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And people exposed to the smoke could have major health impacts down the line.
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They should have used a needle instead of smoking...
 
Foo Fighter said:
IMHO, sabotage of a defence asset just has to be treason in my book.
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The Constitution is really clear on what can be considered treason. We've had a hard time even applying it to US citizens who took up arms with the Taliban in Afghanistan against US forces. If that doesn't rate, then this clearly does not.

sferrin said:
Just going to put this here.
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That's just absurd. I will 100% guarantee that neither the US nor Chinese governments are going around lighting fires on each others' ships.
 
TomS said:
That's just absurd. I will 100% guarantee that neither the US nor Chinese governments are going around lighting fires on each others' ships.
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No, that's what Useful Idiots are for. My money is, if it's arson, it WON'T be because somebody was mad at their boss.
 
MihoshiK said:
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
Click to expand...
Treason in the US has such a narrow definition that you might as well forget it. It's like people screaming that organized crime can be attacked with the RICO act. Technically this is true. It's just incredibly rare for those actual circumstances to actually come up.

Simply torching a warship in no way qualifies for the legal definition of treason.
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Improper hazarding of a vessel is a capital crime under the UCMJ; the death penalty
can be imposed at any time: war, peace, Age of Aquarius, etc.
 
sferrin said:
TomS said:
That's just absurd. I will 100% guarantee that neither the US nor Chinese governments are going around lighting fires on each others' ships.
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No, that's what Useful Idiots are for. My money is, if it's arson, it WON'T be because somebody was mad at their boss.
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I'd happily take that money. Last comparable event (USS Miami) happened because some yard worker wanted some time off. I suspect this one will end up being someone pissed that the rest of the crew got weekends off and he/she was stuck aboard ship. Or someone just mad at their chief because they got a shit detail. Or alternatively someone who wanted to be a hero by discovering and then helping to extinguish a small yard fire that got out of hand. Etc. Pretty much anything except "the Chinese made me do it."
 
TomS said:
Foo Fighter said:
IMHO, sabotage of a defence asset just has to be treason in my book.
Click to expand...

The Constitution is really clear on what can be considered treason. We've had a hard time even applying it to US citizens who took up arms with the Taliban in Afghanistan against US forces. If that doesn't rate, then this clearly does not.

sferrin said:
Just going to put this here.
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That's just absurd. I will 100% guarantee that neither the US nor Chinese governments are going around lighting fires on each others' ships.
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your suggesting 3rd party players, just suggesting mongolia and Colombia - just as examples...wasnt me !!
 
TomS said:
I'd happily take that money. Last comparable event (USS Miami) happened because some yard worker wanted some time off.
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I would point out that's what his defense attorney and the prosecutors agreed to accept as his confession.

Rumor has it he's paying off the $400 million in restitution he was sentenced to at 10 bucks a week.
 
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marauder2048 said:
MihoshiK said:
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
Click to expand...
Treason in the US has such a narrow definition that you might as well forget it. It's like people screaming that organized crime can be attacked with the RICO act. Technically this is true. It's just incredibly rare for those actual circumstances to actually come up.

Simply torching a warship in no way qualifies for the legal definition of treason.
Click to expand...


Improper hazarding of a vessel is a capital crime under the UCMJ; the death penalty
can be imposed at any time: war, peace, Age of Aquarius, etc.
Click to expand...
Still does not qualify for treason though. People who bandy that around don't know what they're talking about.
 
MihoshiK said:
marauder2048 said:
MihoshiK said:
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
Click to expand...
Treason in the US has such a narrow definition that you might as well forget it. It's like people screaming that organized crime can be attacked with the RICO act. Technically this is true. It's just incredibly rare for those actual circumstances to actually come up.

Simply torching a warship in no way qualifies for the legal definition of treason.
Click to expand...


Improper hazarding of a vessel is a capital crime under the UCMJ; the death penalty
can be imposed at any time: war, peace, Age of Aquarius, etc.
Click to expand...
Still does not qualify for treason though. People who bandy that around don't know what they're talking about.
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Both have the same penalty under the UCMJ so who cares?
 
MihoshiK said:
marauder2048 said:
MihoshiK said:
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
Click to expand...
Treason in the US has such a narrow definition that you might as well forget it. It's like people screaming that organized crime can be attacked with the RICO act. Technically this is true. It's just incredibly rare for those actual circumstances to actually come up.

Simply torching a warship in no way qualifies for the legal definition of treason.
Click to expand...


Improper hazarding of a vessel is a capital crime under the UCMJ; the death penalty
can be imposed at any time: war, peace, Age of Aquarius, etc.
Click to expand...
Still does not qualify for treason though. People who bandy that around don't know what they're talking about.
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And you of course, do?
 
marauder2048 said:
MihoshiK said:
marauder2048 said:
MihoshiK said:
Foo Fighter said:
Treason, worthy of a needle, and not for a tatt. Second, how many people were hurt and could have been killed? Worth a needle. Third, how much did he just cost the DoD/Navy for a replacement/repairs that SHOULD have gone on a ship with further impact down the line? Worth a needle.

For being an ignorant something or other willing to risk other people's lives/health? For what purpose? Well worth a needle. If you allow this sort of thing to continue what next? Someone not wanting to go on deployment sets fire to their ship and also gets away with it?

Needle every time if this is what happened. No long delays for appeals either.
Click to expand...
Treason in the US has such a narrow definition that you might as well forget it. It's like people screaming that organized crime can be attacked with the RICO act. Technically this is true. It's just incredibly rare for those actual circumstances to actually come up.

Simply torching a warship in no way qualifies for the legal definition of treason.
Click to expand...


Improper hazarding of a vessel is a capital crime under the UCMJ; the death penalty
can be imposed at any time: war, peace, Age of Aquarius, etc.
Click to expand...
Still does not qualify for treason though. People who bandy that around don't know what they're talking about.
Click to expand...

Both have the same penalty under the UCMJ so who cares?
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That's the maximum penalty that can be awarded. It almost never is. You know how many people in the Military have been sentenced to death since the death penalty was reinstated in 1983? Four. That's it. And none of them have actually been executed. In fact, the military hasn't executed anyone since 1961. The death penalty is beyond rare in a Court Martial. There is no way the sailor who started the fire is getting sentenced to death.
 
SSgtC said:
That's the maximum penalty that can be awarded. It almost never is. You know how many people in the Military have been sentenced to death since the death penalty was reinstated in 1983? Four. That's it. And none of them have actually been executed. In fact, the military hasn't executed anyone since 1961. The death penalty is beyond rare in a Court Martial. There is no way the sailor who started the fire is getting sentenced to death.
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We get it.. you don't think it was a big deal.
 
marauder2048 said:
SSgtC said:
That's the maximum penalty that can be awarded. It almost never is. You know how many people in the Military have been sentenced to death since the death penalty was reinstated in 1983? Four. That's it. And none of them have actually been executed. In fact, the military hasn't executed anyone since 1961. The death penalty is beyond rare in a Court Martial. There is no way the sailor who started the fire is getting sentenced to death.
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We get it.. you don't think it was a big deal.
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Don't put words in my mouth. It's obviously a big deal. But it. Does. Not. Warrant. Killing. Someone. Over. It's a ship that burned. It can be replaced. Whoever started the fire is going to spend decades in prison. But it's not a crime that deserves death.
 
sferrin said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1298721273829134348
View: https://twitter.com/CBSWalsh/status/1298721273829134348
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It's worth pointing out that the story was based on an anonymous leak, not an official statement. Also, a few years ago the science of arson investigation was shown to be include some incorrect assumptions that led to many incorrect conclusions. Since arson science is mostly concerned with land based structures, I wonder how well fires within steel hulls are understood.
 
Geez, this thread has become a "death penalty advocacy fest". Which is perfectly sickening and VERY irritating, really.

It's worth pointing out that the story was based on an anonymous leak, not an official statement. Also, a few years ago the science of arson investigation was shown to be include some incorrect assumptions that led to many incorrect conclusions. Since arson science is mostly concerned with land based structures, I wonder how well fires within steel hulls are understood.
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Which points at the major flaw of death penalty: if you kill the WRONG person, there is no going back. By contrast, even if the person has spent 20 years behind bars, you can still open the doors and set it free.

Had death penalty be applied in the case of Gregory Villemin, they would have fried the mother - which was completely innocent and accused by media hysteria and a completely inane judge (who remained so shameful of his own "work" on the case, he ultimately committed suicide). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Grégory_Villemin

Wrongful execution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Oh well...
 
Jurisdication is a wide and difficult field. And with all the assumptions and speculations this case is causing here, before hardly any other hard facts,
than that of the fire itself are published, it's quite out of the scope of this
forum, I think.
I would recommend, to stay with news only and avoid further speculations,
that already were drifting into politics.
 
i think this thread went downhill as soon as advocating killing the alleged perpetrator was stated. maybe the moderators could remove the original comment obviously designed to be inflamatory and the proceeding page of comment from which ? :/
 
The USS Bonhomme-Richard will be scrapped

news.usni.org

UPDATED: Navy Will Scrap USS Bonhomme Richard - USNI News

This post has been updated with additional historical details. The Navy decided to scrap the amphibious assault ship that burned for nearly five days earlier this year, concluding after months of investigations that trying to rebuild and restore the ship would take too much money and too much...
news.usni.org news.usni.org
 
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