Mostly because all the systems that make them able to do the job at all are expensive, and more systems keep getting added to the "minimum requirements" list.
Interesting article , the mach 2 cruiser could be a game changer...The doubtful future of the US Air Force’s planned NGAD fighter | The Strategist
US Air Force chief of staff General David Allvin handed a surprise to industry on 13 June by suggesting that the service might not proceed as expected with its next combat aircraft, the one planned ...www.aspistrategist.org.au
aviationweek.com
I think the same , it is still 2 years we heard a lot about Boeing and not too much about Lockheed , the F-15 EX program going very well in place of the F-35 is in difficulty.
The F-35 TR-3 is delayed. The F-15EX is already delayed and extended because of that. So I don't know how Boeing is going very well with the F-15EX relative to the F-35.
When you come back to the B-21 contract we know months before that it was Northrop who win , because they communicate a lot on the B-21. 1.6 billion for a factory is a lot of money.
F-15 EX have not real problems, start to be operational in Oregon National guard less than the F-35 problems..
I never thought we should have ended F-22 production so early in the first place and for the longest time I believe we should have restarted production of an improved variant. Yet I fear in all this time that has passed that opportunity has been wasted. Lockheed has to keep F-35 production going plus their other projects and it is critical they sort out all of this software trouble delaying deliveries and upgrades. For the amount of work it would take now to restart F-22 production now we might as well build an entirely new airframe. Although I wonder if some of the NGAD concepts bring considered might be too unorthodox or ambitious. This notion that it has to be some huge leap forward as a "6th generation" fighter when that is an even more nebulous concept that what had defined/separated prior generations of jet fighters. As for who the main contractor is, the situation seems a bit worrying considering ongoing difficulties and the degree of Industry consolidation that has occured.The way I see it is the F-22 is old technology now and is in need of replacement even designing a so called F-22M modified with some sixth generation technology in a fifth generation plus aircraft would not work in the modern battlefield if that is the way that the USAF are currently thinking then that will be plane (pun intended) stupid.
You mean other than the delay to the program and Boeing running behind on deliveries and not planning on catching up? Yes, its basically a rehashing of a decades old design with most all missions systems that first flew on USAF F-15E's or have been in production for export customers, or funded elsewhere so its a different case. Boeing screwed up delivering on a quick and fairly easy program of delivering on a variant that they had already built for export (with USAF mods flying or funded via the E modernization effort). I'm not comparing the two but to the program most certainly did not go well.
I don't understand how Lockheed could have built a plane like F-35 who is at each time in a problem, now USAF must restart the game with a new platform like NGAD and CCA and scrap the F-35 when the Ngad ans his drone will be in the sky. I realy have a doubt that Lockheed will be able to build a thing like the SR-72 when we see the F-35 program....
A common myth is that contractors 'make investments' in plant, property & equipment PPE, in addition to independent research & development IR&D and bid & proposal B&P.
And we will stay with a plane who don't work well.
Compared to the real capacity than Lockheed sell to USAF years ago. About the marvelous F-35 who make the end of the F-22 building line.
F-35 production had nothing to do with the F-22 purchasing. While the F-35 blk4 is held up, it nevertheless has been adopted by over a dozen nations. Fly away costs are competitive with 4.5 gen aircraft. There is no counterpart on the market.
www.flightglobal.com
That says nothing to contradict the point made - Boeing has had delays on each F-15EX production lot leading to pushing several milestones by a year or thereabouts.With deliveries underway, US pilots begin transitioning to F-15EX
With Boeing having delivered the first operational example of its latest F-15EX multi-role fighter, US Air Force pilots who previously flew the F-15C are beginning the process of transitioning to the new jet.
Looks like you have a problem reading because I clearly mentioned that I'm not comparing the programs (you can't given one is a significant upgrade to a 5GFA while the other was already in production (Qatar baseline) and had its only new system in flight testing at contract award) but one can't deny that despite lack of risk (mature sub-systems, hardware, and in-service FBW upgrades which were themselves delayed at the time) Boeing still managed a nearly 1 year long delay on F-15EX milestones. I'm a huge F-15EX fan but one has to be pretty blind to look at the program and not see the Boeing screwup.
YES it seem that , this facility is for higly classified projects.... May be Boenig have win a big classified project..What is interesting is the words "construction has started before Boeing has secured the contracts that would fund the aircraft sitting in there ...."
Not to spoil the party:
This is for higly classified projects may be something else than NGAD?
You don't built a 1.6 billion building if you are not sure of the end of the contract.
They will be sure of what they will build there by the time this thing begins costing them a ton of money to build out. Its not like they would sink $1.6 Bn and then find out what's going to be built there. Majority of that capital expense can be diverted if some of their big bets don't pan out. This thing is going to take 2 years to be fully built out. Most big programs require bidders to be able to show how they plan on executing..and having these investments is something you almost always need.
agree 100% but nornalds words suggest otherwise, it's a black and murky world.
Boeing publicly revealed their intention to support this $1.6 Bn project back in August of 2023. By this time NG had exited NGAD and the RFP was out. In order them to be viable candidate, in addition to having a design that's competitive they would have to have a plan to actually build this thing. Lockheed likewise has made hundreds of millions of capital investment to expand its Palmdale footprint. You kind of have to put up or shut up in these programs and have to show you can actually execute on your proposal. Of course, they will re-purpose it for other classified work if they do not win, or perhaps even downsize original plans significantly and look to transition other programs to this more modern facility. LM would have plans to do the same for their investments.
Is it my dream of a SSTO hypersonic nuclear bomber?
With the billions and billions injected in black programs may be there is your dream somewhereIs it my dream of a SSTO hypersonic nuclear bomber?
I hope so , insteed where is the money ?Black programs are spread across the big three. Even though Boeing commercial is struggling (includes KC-46 since its a B767 derivative), Phantom Works is independent like Skunk Works and NG Advanced Programs are, you need the friendly competition and innovation. When I was at Northrop and affiliated with advanced Programs (AP) starting in 1986, we cross pollinated with Skunk Works, ultimately we were developing systems for the common good for the US but we have and had our friendly rivalries of course.
Northrop started investing its own money way back in the early 1960's, in LO technology and Northrop (along with Lockheed) knew about the potential of stealth technology 30+ years before anyone else, this was clearly stated by the late Thomas V. Jones (former Northrop CEO) during the B-2 roll out. Some history, Northrop flew the YB-49 against radars at Half Moon Bay and by the time the radar operators got a lock on the aircraft, the YB-49 had already had destroyed the facility, and this with an all-aluminum flying wing. There is a lot of technology Northrop and Lockheed had developed over decades that more than likely no one except the special few know about. Northrop and Lockheed had true visionaries, everyone else had and has to play catch-up.
It would be interesting, but impossible, to understand the funding split between IRAD and government contracts in this technology area. Also interesting to factor in government transfers of IP from 3rd parties (e.g. MIT RadLab).
